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Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:25 pm

I bought new copper head gaskets for my new build. Do I need to anneal them before I use them or is that just done only if reusing used ones. Also, I read one article that said to cool them quickly in water and another that said to cool them slowly in the air. Which is it? :?:

Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:28 pm

You would let them cool slowly, but this is usually for a used item, not new.

Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:29 pm

I used them right out of the package.

Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:33 pm

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Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:40 pm

I wish you would tell us how you really feel Type 5 Joe.......... :D

Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:55 pm

You can use them right out of the package...and over again with the same heads/case without touching them (eg. if changing camshafts, etc, just re-install).

One of the advantages of copper head gaskets is that you may not have to use cylinder shims (or can use fewer shims), which keeps more of the cylinder down inside the case, for better piston skirt support. I've used them on my 2017 and 2332 cc engines...no head leaks ever. Probably not necessary on a stock engine, but useful on some strokers...

Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:11 pm

I use them right out of the packaging.On my case i dont need to use any shims and got .050 deck with an 82 crank and 5.4 rods so i used copper shims instead.Makes it way easier if i decide to up the compression later too.

Never used any until this build.

Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:20 am

They are not gaskets and do not seal anything. All they are is a shim with fancy marketing scam to get your money. I have never used them on any VW engine I have ever built.

Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:26 am

I use them right out of the package. Another plus in using them, is that you'll never see the sealing surface of the head get Hammered from the cylinder digging into it.
I really don't understand why anyone would be hating on them.
What problems do they cause?
What Damage do they cause?
I've not seen any downfall to using them.

Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:33 am

77charger wrote: I use them right out of the packaging.On my case i dont need to use any shims and got .050 deck with an 82 crank and 5.4 rods so i used copper shims instead.Makes it way easier if i decide to up the compression later too.

Never used any until this build.

That is exactly why I got them as well. that and I was hoping they would help protect my new Timms Stage 2 heads from needing cut if I ever pull them off to do some work. I think they will work well with my 2110. I'm running zero deck, so with a .050" copper shim it is just about right.

Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:26 am

agggilli wrote: 77charger wrote: I use them right out of the packaging.On my case i dont need to use any shims and got .050 deck with an 82 crank and 5.4 rods so i used copper shims instead.Makes it way easier if i decide to up the compression later too.

Never used any until this build.

That is exactly why I got them as well. that and I was hoping they would help protect my new Timms Stage 2 heads from needing cut if I ever pull them off to do some work. I think they will work well with my 2110. I'm running zero deck, so with a .050" copper shim it is just about right.

I have been using copper head gaskets for 25 years and have never had an issue with a head gasket fail. I have torn down engines built by other builders that have head leaks and or torched heads, it has never happend on my engines. If there was no use for them, why would Porsche use head gaskets?

Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:32 am

I've seen two motors now die because of those pesky head gaskets.
I couldn't agree more with Joe. Throw them things as far as you can, then run the other direction! :lol:

Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:28 pm

vwracerdave wrote: ...I have never used them on any VW engine I have ever built.

Yeah, that's useful info...

Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:41 pm

Me neither. Never used them and never will.

Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:33 pm

craigman wrote: I've seen two motors now die because of those pesky head gaskets.
I couldn't agree more with Joe. Throw them things as far as you can, then run the other direction! :lol:

So how did they cause the engines to die?

Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:47 pm

I don't like stacking base shims, so using a head gasket is nice to get the deck where you want it without stacking base shims/spacers.

Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:48 pm

hmm but..well hmm .hmm,butt....hmm,ah hmm but they do seal !!!if they dont it wouldnt of sealed with out them.and they do help transfer heat from the cyl where there is no fins to the head witch suckes up the heat to be blown away. and yes they are a shim.and a gasket. just like the head shims for chevy& dodge.they are also a gasket.why did vw not use them??IDK.but they were not real woried about water leaking, and the awassom power of the oe motors why bother??I ahve pulled appart motors that had the chambers machined over .005"out side to side and they sealed, that is 1 cyl down over .005 in the center and the other cylinder up and down on to ex side.and they sealed just fine,(somebody did not tram in thier mill or something) I dont think it would or sealed at all with out them. use them or not. I do.

Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:08 pm

vwracerdave wrote: They do not seal anything.

Hmmm... guess magic pixie dust has been keeping the compression in all these years.... :-k

I don't like shimming the jug, so I shim the head instead. Same difference, except the piston sits at the top of the bore like it's supposed to.

Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:54 pm

tncsparky wrote: craigman wrote: I've seen two motors now die because of those pesky head gaskets.
I couldn't agree more with Joe. Throw them things as far as you can, then run the other direction! :lol:

So how did they cause the engines to die?

On both motors, the copper head gasket got sucked it. On one engine, it got wedged in the ring glands, and the other got wrapped around the valves.
I just don't see why people would want to add a 3rd part into the mix. Meaning, you have aluminum head aginst a iron cylnder. Now add copper and now you have 3 different metals that expand at different rates.
Their was a tech bulletin on the type 4 motors that were having that problem. The answer was to yank those things out and put a shim under the cylnder to keep compression the same.

Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:59 pm

craigman wrote: Their was a tech bulletin on the type 4 motors that were having that problem.

Apples and oranges, the T4 never had a copper shim it was more like a soft metal crush gasket.