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Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:06 am

I was comparing the flow numbers between the DRD L6 and the CB Perf wedgeports, both are within $50.00 of each but one is using at 25" of water and the other is at 28". Which is the better head....what other factors should be considered?

DRD L6. $849.99 at .550" lift flow at 203.9 @ 28" of water

CB Perf wedgeport at .550" lift flow at 198 @ 25" of water

Both are intake rates at one given lift an the wedgeports is a 44mm intake verse a 42mm intake for the L6.

Thanks

Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:22 am

there is a conversion for that. Ill see if I can find my superflow manual for it.

Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:45 am

that was an easy find.the conversion factor for those flows are
have flow @ 25" x1.06 =28"flow witch would be 209.88 cfm.
And if you want the other way around it would be,
have flow at 28"x.945 =25" flow ## witch would be 192.68 cfm.
that make it hard to compare heads because some times the flow rate isant stated.it make it easy to "fudge"on the ###'s but still be accurate.if you cant make them flow as much as somebody elses just flow them at a higher flow rate(test pressure)and then you have more.but not realy, but some heads need to be flowed at a defferent rate.but I doubt there is a vw head out there that does.possiably the new cb elemnators.(on a small flow bench that cant pull enough air to reach the 25" test pressure you would use the next lower test pressure that will work&then convert it.if the flow bench cant pull enough to reach the 25"the head is flowing better than the head that reaches the 25"and that is a good thing.
as for the heads I would use the cb heads as they flow more,but pull them appart,do a valve job(lightly do the seats)and any clean up work needed in the seat bowel aera. but depending on how big your motor is you may need to see what the runner cc's are on the heads. the cb mini wedge port has a smaller runner than the wedgeport but still flows more than the drd head you listed.and it has the 42 mm intake valve also. do your home work. under 2200 cc runner size can be importaint on a street car.my 2028 had a slight sag in power midrange,hopefuly the taller better desigined big beef cb intakes will elimnate it.my 2332 with the same cam,cb tall intakes &lower cr had no problem at all.

Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:56 am

DerrickfromNC1 wrote: I was comparing the flow numbers between the DRD L6 and the CB Perf wedgeports, both are within $50.00 of each but one is using at 25" of water and the other is at 28". Which is the better head....what other factors should be considered?

DRD L6. $849.99 at .550" lift flow at 203.9 @ 28" of water

CB Perf wedgeport at .550" lift flow at 198 @ 25" of water

Both are intake rates at one given lift an the wedgeports is a 44mm intake verse a 42mm intake for the L6.

Thanks Look into our new Super pro 044. Flows better than the wedgeport with a 6cc smaller intake port volume. Air speed is 30 ft per/sec greater also. It's a killer port.

Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:31 pm

Any good pics of those heads Pat? We only see a "crappy" pic :lol:

I wish you made some cool pics like on the wedges and mini wedges product pages.

Would you install those on a big bus engine? (like a 2332 with cam like a FK44 and Magna F/S FI and crank trigger kit)

Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:37 pm

Max head flow #'s don't mean $hit...
Are you going to drive your car around at 7K rpm all the time? If you are, then max #'s might mean something.
It's all about port velocity...
Don't know about the DRD heads, but most CB heads are based on their own head castings. Not stock casting like most heads out there.

Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:54 pm

I won't say flow numbers are not important for performance but no one talks about them with respect to why they may or may not be important at different times for different applications. There is much more interest now in port volume which is correct thinking for sure but you should see that a port with the same flow numbers at full lift have fatter flow numbers in the low to mid lift region that a higher volume port. That is a winner of a head. At very low lift, just off the seat, you will see that the numbers change very little from head to head for a given valve size because it's ruled by the valve seat prep. In a street engine that is throttled a lot those mid/low to mid lift numbers are the key to sharp throttle response and good economy with power and torque right here and right now.

When you move into the higher sustained RPM's the mid numbers are less important than the total flow and volume as the flow regime has changed and the timing events, on a relative scale, have become much shorter due to RPM and the effect of piston movement becomes more influential than in a lower RPM street engine. What I'm talking about is relative piston velocity vs time allotted to get the air in the cylinder. Piston velocities are rising while time is shrinking so the pressure drop thru the port is rising. Raw volume becomes more important in this region and also why cam timing has to increase as has always been understood. In this situation VE can go very high with careful intake setup.

Don't bother to point out some of the issues I purposely left out to try to keep this simple. It's almost impossible to put into 2 dimensional words something happening dynamically in 3 dimensions. It would take pages and pages and be more confusing than enlightening.

RC

Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:51 pm

craigman wrote: Max head flow #'s don't mean $hit...
Are you going to drive your car around at 7K rpm all the time? If you are, then max #'s might mean something.
It's all about port velocity...
Don't know about the DRD heads, but most CB heads are based on their own head castings. Not stock casting like most heads out there. did you understand what pat said?would yourather have a head that flows 60 cfm at all ranges??above .200" lift?with a monsterious port? a proper smaller port can out preform/flow a bad biger port.Thats makes power&torque& driveabilty.

Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:00 pm

The super pro is a smaller port than the wedgeport. It flows from 3-8 cfm more starting at .300 lift than the wedgeport. The port volume is 6cc less then the wedgeport. Any time you can achieve more flow with a smaller port, you have a more efficient better performing head. The decrease in port volume increased port velocity by about 30 ft per/sec. A win win situation. Flow numbers are just as important as velocity numbers. They need to go hand in hand with eachother. Too much air speed= sonic choke. Sonic Choke is directly related too the Cross section of the port. There is no way too fix it other than making the crossection bigger. You have too lower the air speed.
Not enough air speed or too large of a port = port will not recover at lower rpm's and will have poor performace.
The Super pro is a great head for the money.

Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:28 pm

All the newer CB heads, the super-pro, the mini wedge and los panchito

Look friggin awesome

Headflow at 25" is hp potential, choose the one that fits your goals and the rest of your engine

Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:37 pm

and this is why... some.. will say only the flow bench can tell (if ur doing it right or wrong.. or its the only way? LOL)

but airspeed, and depression says alot more than flow..

just like a dyno ...peak numbers open eyes, but e.t. and our lap times differ greatly on how the "curve" on the dyno is...

plotting numbers by cfm ' cb's have fat curves that lets u use all of the heads potential

looks like the new offerings from CB are like wat modok says, AWESOME!

now i wonder how my friend's 2176 would run with the super pro when it already has good top end with the cnc wedge's

:)

Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:31 pm

I was just looking at the super pros. They look really good! Very attractive for my up and coming head purchase.

Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:50 pm

Pat D wrote: The super pro is a smaller port than the wedgeport. It flows from 3-8 cfm more starting at .300 lift than the wedgeport. The port volume is 6cc less then the wedgeport. Any time you can achieve more flow with a smaller port, you have a more efficient better performing head. The decrease in port volume increased port velocity by about 30 ft per/sec. A win win situation. Flow numbers are just as important as velocity numbers. They need to go hand in hand with eachother. Too much air speed= sonic choke. Sonic Choke is directly related too the Cross section of the port. There is no way too fix it other than making the crossection bigger. You have too lower the air speed.
Not enough air speed or too large of a port = port will not recover at lower rpm's and will have poor performace.
The Super pro is a great head for the money.

Pat, can you order matching IDF manifolds for this head??

Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:44 am

I think they have cnc ported intakes for all thier stuff,get the tall big beef intakes there about the best intake out there,nice &slim helps keep velostcity up ,not just a set of flanges with a big hole leading to a small hole.I have them on both of my motors.+they look good.(wish they would widen them up a bit),but plenty of room for just about any size &shape port you might want or have.

Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:39 am

I've been saving for about a month for the SuperPro's and talking with Pat about my 2276T I'm Building. (Hoping for about 275ish HP low-boost street/daily driver... impossible??? ... we'll see i guess) Got the cam he recommended and finally was about to call this a.m. to order the heads with the valve spring upgrades and to my dismay... CB is closed on Monday's FML...LOL...

Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:25 am

wicked1lbc wrote: I've been saving for about a month for the SuperPro's and talking with Pat about my 2276T I'm Building. (Hoping for about 275ish HP low-boost street/daily driver... impossible??? ... we'll see i guess) Got the cam he recommended and finally was about to call this a.m. to order the heads with the valve spring upgrades and to my dismay... CB is closed on Monday's FML...LOL... Very doable......good heads just make the Turbo's job easier and the cam can approach closer to a normal street grind for good bottom end. People think that just because they are going Turbo that the heads become unimportant.....not at all true. They are just as important as any other application. The advantage to VW heads is they are all ready oversized on the exhaust side even the big valve 40x35.5 or 42x37.5 but you can even go further on the exhaust for your turbo. Big power with lower boost ensues or even bigger power with moderate boost.

RC

Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:47 am

RockCrusher wrote: wicked1lbc wrote: I've been saving for about a month for the SuperPro's and talking with Pat about my 2276T I'm Building. (Hoping for about 275ish HP low-boost street/daily driver... impossible??? ... we'll see i guess) Got the cam he recommended and finally was about to call this a.m. to order the heads with the valve spring upgrades and to my dismay... CB is closed on Monday's FML...LOL... Very doable......good heads just make the Turbo's job easier and the came can approach closer to a normal street grind for good bottom end. People think that just because they are going Turbo that the heads become unimportant.....not at all true. They are just as important as any other application. The advantage to VW heads is they are all ready oversized on the exhaust side even the big valve 40x35.5 or 42x37.5 but you can even go further on the exhaust for your turbo. Big power with lower boost ensues or even bigger power with moderate boost.

RC

Exactly how I understood it :D looks like all the research i did is paying off. I just can't wait to see what kind of numbers i make and feel the power when I need it. To be honest I'm going for a highway cruiser with power when i need it. my next investment will be a new tranny from rancho with a 3.88r/p and a .82 4th. Depending on the rpm drop from 3rd to 4th will tell me what size tires ill run. I'd like to run the tallest possible without dropping below the power range if I shift at 4500-5k rpms. It would be perfect if i can get 28" tires under my widened fenders. That would put my cuising speed for 3rd gear at 52mph@ 3000 rpms and 80mph/3000 rpm's/ 4th gear... even with 4th and final gears being so long with the taller tires it will still be fun enough to poke at the honda kids every once in a while. i may even play with a pony or two :D

Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:59 am

I did not like the .082 in mine, with 33x19.5 street tires,to much between 3&4 for around town(rpm drop in 4th to low and 3rd to high, well not to high but more than I want around town.but the 093 was much better so it dont take much,and I did not notice any thing on the highway just cruzze at 75-80 and dont worry about it.

Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:02 am

mark tucker wrote: I did not like the .082 in mine, with 33x19.5 street tires,to much between 3&4 for around town(rpm drop in 4th to low and 3rd to high, well not to high but more than I want around town.but the 093 was much better so it dont take much,and I did not notice any thing on the highway just cruzze at 75-80 and dont worry about it.

33" tall? wow urs must be lifted rat rodded or something because as far as i know those wont fit very well under fender

Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:08 am

mark tucker wrote: I did not like the .082 in mine, with 33x19.5 street tires,to much between 3&4 for around town(rpm drop in 4th to low and 3rd to high, well not to high but more than I want around town.but the 093 was much better so it dont take much,and I did not notice any thing on the highway just cruzze at 75-80 and dont worry about it.

if ur riding 33's on a .93 4th, ur actually just a lil longer geared than i would be if I rode 28's on a .82 4rth

if you were running 33's on a .82 i can see how it would be an extremely large rpm drop from 3rth to 4th