TheSamba.com :: View topic - Trimming the torsion bar end caps . . . ?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:42 pm

Is it possible to take a sawz-all to those tubes protruding from the end caps on the IRS rear torsion housing and shorten 'em up a bit? I have a small import body shell that need about one inch of that tube removed per side in order to slide all of the way down over the pan and "sit" with the right stance. I know that the swing axle is missing them entirely, I suppose that I could somehow use that set up in conjunction with the IRS diagonals and all, but I really just need a smidge of room and was wondering if a bob-job on the ends could be done without a big-assed hole in the world opening up and swallowing everything around me.

Excluding me, of course, 'cause I've got WICKED good luck ! ! ! ! !

Thanks !

TC

Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:07 pm

Those tubes that stick out are actually the torsion bars and spring plates, you can't cut them. You can however, go to a shorter torsion bar and aftermarket springplates that get rid of the protrusion. I'm using them on my current Beetle project becasue hte raised torsion housing is now up in the body of the car

brad

Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:12 pm

No, The splines are at the ends. You cut them off, "you gots nuttin." Your tail will hit the ground.

Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:15 pm

slalombuggy wrote: Those tubes that stick out are actually the torsion bars and spring plates, you can't cut them. You can however, go to a shorter torsion bar and aftermarket springplates that get rid of the protrusion. I'm using them on my current Beetle project becasue hte raised torsion housing is now up in the body of the car

brad

This is true. One thing to think about is you will get a much firmer ride. The longer the torsions are the softer the ride.

Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:04 pm

Switching to the shorter torsion bar can be done. I have done it with several buggies I have owned.
Use to cut down the swing axle spring plates to fit the IRS supension before they started selling them.
Now just buy the cheap adjustable spring plates, it is a lot less work.
What I have found is using the torsion bars out of 1967-68 Bugs which are 21mm diameter. These are 1mm smaller in diameter then both the stock IRS and earlier 60s swing axle.
The 21mm short torsion bar is very close in spring rating of the 22mm IRS long bar.
Going to them really improved my ride being softer like what you would feel with using the longer bars and they will clear a 31in plus, tire with out any interference.

Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:29 am

Everything you need

http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C26%2D501%2D315

http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C24%2D113%2D511%2D115

http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C24%2D113%2D511%2D116

http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D113%2D511%2D227%2DA

brad

Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:27 pm

PERFECT ! ! !

Thanks guys, I KNEW that you would have the answer for me ! ! ! !

TC

Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:46 pm

To bad CIP1 does not post the diameter of the torsion bar.
It may be that Bettles shipped to Canada did not come with the smaller diameter bar and the Z-bar overrider system.
This is the rating of the torsion bars I was talking about.
The 21 3/4in long 21mm diameter bar is rated at 488 in lb for 1 degree of twist.
The 26 9/16in long 22mm diameter bar is rated at 464 in lb for 1 degree of twist.
Really close in spring rate.

The 21 3/4in long 22mm diameter bar is rated at 588 in lb for 1 degree of twist.
From experience you can feel the difference the 1mm smaller make a big difference.
I still finding 67 and 68 Bugs in Pick N Pull yards. There out there.
And if you do use the aftermarket spring plates, they are a 1/2in wider across the face than stock one.
Without modifying the springs by notching or modifying the stops on torsion housing you may not get even stock travel.

This was on a Tow'd project that was using axles and CVs from a Porsche 924 and I was trying to get the most travel I could get.

Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:58 am

Also notice how Joseph rounded the corners of the spring plate close to the three slotted mounting holes. If you don't clearance the corners like he did, you won't be able to slide the trailing arm far enough forward to acheive the proper amount of toe-in.

Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:50 am

We got Zee bars, far longer than you did. We had swing axle rear ends up untill 70s on some cars.

brad

Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:07 am

If you had the Z-Bar for a longer period of time, then it should be easier to find the smaller 21mm diameter torsion bar.

Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:27 pm

I'm getting ready to place an order to convert my 69 IRS to short 21-3/4 torsion bars.

I need some advice on what will work best:
Torsion bars
1a) - CIP1 OE GENUINE VW LEFT&RIGHT REAR TORSION BAR - 21-3/4 : $125.90
1b) - CB Performance 7536 27mm Torsion Bars 21 3/4 : $205.95

Spring Plates
2a) - CIP1 HEAVY DUTY IRS SPRING PLATES FOR 21-3/4 : $69.77
2b) - CIP1 HEAVY DUTY CHROME IRS SPRING PLATES FOR 21-3/4 : $99.70
2c) - CB Performance 6343 Spring Plates - IRS T-1 21 3/4'' $84.95
2d) - CB Performance 2840 Adjustable Spring Plate - IRS (all chassis with short bar) 21 3/4 : $284.95
2e) - CIP1 ADJUSTABLE SPRING PLATES IRS REAR SUSP : $115.45

Plate Cap
3a) - CIP1 CHROME SPRING PLATE CAPS PR - BEETLE 60-68 : $11.50
3b) - CB Performance Racing Spring Plate Covers : $36.95

Torsion Bar Bushings
4a) - CIP1 SPRING PLATE BUSHING SET INNER & OUTER : $18.85
4b) - CIP1 URETHANE KNOBBY BUSHING : $35.60
4c) - CB PErformance Rear Torsion Grommets : $21.90

This is going on my 1969 IRS for the Manx Kickout-SS we are building.
Progress thread

Thanks for your help.

Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:38 pm

Don't forget these fairly new on the market spring plate covers.

3c http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1235293

Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:35 pm

joescoolcustoms wrote: Don't forget these fairly new on the market spring plate covers.

3c http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1235293

What outer bushing does it use??

Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:42 pm

crowe66 wrote: joescoolcustoms wrote: Don't forget these fairly new on the market spring plate covers.

3c http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1235293

What outer bushing does it use??

Round, 1 7/8" hole standard bushing.

He also makes these for the long IRS spring plate caps.

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:18 pm

joescoolcustoms wrote: Don't forget these fairly new on the market spring plate covers.

3c http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1235293

Those look nice.

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:23 pm

BL3Manx wrote: joescoolcustoms wrote: Don't forget these fairly new on the market spring plate covers.

3c http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1235293

Those look nice.

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe I will add them after the build is done....$100 can be spent someplace else right now.

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:23 pm

BL3Manx wrote: joescoolcustoms wrote: Don't forget these fairly new on the market spring plate covers.

3c http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1235293

Those look nice.

I ordered a set, thanks.

Now I just need confirmation on the best torsion and plate to get.

Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:26 pm

Quote: Now I just need confirmation on the best torsion and plate to get.

What will your use be on this buggy? Harsh off roading, mild off road, mostly on road, high horse power, carry a lot of weight, want a soft ride for those old bones, desire to be adjustable?

The 61 to 68 swing torsion bars are the stiffest VW made and will carry the most load per inch of stock OEM bars. The late long IRS is the softest bar and give the smoothest ride for a stock OEM bar. After market bars will put you anywhere you want to be.

Regarding the spring plates, the aftermarket plates lack in one thing, they are not made of spring steel. The OEM stock spring plates are made of spring steel. Every notice how a swing spring plate will be twisted when the suspension is at full droop, but then returns to flat once taken apart from the axle tube? The after market spring plates do not offer that same kind of spring twist as the suspension cycles from droop to compressed. This makes the suspension react somewhat stiffer, giving a slightly rougher/harsher ride.

If at all possible, stay with rubber rear spring plate bushings. They make a much better ride quality in the long run.

Just some data to chew on when making your decission.

Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:09 pm

Get adjustable spring plates, the longer the torsion bar, the better the ride.

Standard Sway-a-way adjustable spring plates are high quality spring steel. The race ones are even better.

http://www.swayaway.com/springplates.php