TheSamba.com :: View topic - valve covers full of oil - leaking

Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:42 pm

I am so freaking disgusted with this ACME - NEW CUMBERLAND PA engine. I dont name names like this - but I have had it. I could write a book on the problems I have had with this thing and and right now trying to sort out a perpetual valve cover oil leak - have maybe 1000 miles total on this. You don't even want to know what this soon to be boat anchor has cost me so far in time and money.

I have 5 ACVWs and am building a third one from the ground up. Have done several top end rebuilds, built a 1914 from scratch. Not my first time at the rodeo.

OK - here is the rundown - engine was installed 7/11, 8/11 AND 9/11 (Don't ask or I will really get upset). Was a brand new 1955 stroker, NEW case, heads, everything. CB Performance filter pump, 1.5 qt sump, Clyde Berg breather box (vented to valve covers and oil filler). This is a street/show car and is babied.

Have dealt with more than a few sloppy build issues over the entire time I have had this, and have had chronic valve cover oil leaks from day one. Not real bad, but the heater boxes and bottom of the engine are always wet.

The builder, Jim, initially installed bolt on vented Empi Aluminum valve covers - had some leak issues. Figured it was the valve covers. Just after the second time I installed the engine. I installed Scat stainless clip ons with vents added - still leaks - maybe a little less, but still does.

So last week I figured, screw it - going to try a set of stock valve covers and see what happens. To play it safe, I opened up the filler breather a little. Had to clearance the stock valve covers a little for the 1.4 rockers. Barely hitting without gasket. No vents though. Started the car up - ran for like 2 minutes - oil starts pouring out of the valve covers. Car was at moderate RPMS - it was cold and just wanted to keep it running - so maybe 2000 RPMS.

Pop the driver side valve cover and its freaking Niagra Falls. Valve cover was full of oil. So NOW I understand why it looks like oil was being pushed up the vent tubes. I mean, there's a difference between oil vapor and actual oil.

The oil level is at the lower line on the dipstick. 15-40 Rotella with ZDDP additive. I have not measured oil pressure yet.

OK - I understand venting needs at higher RPMS and such, as well as having excess case pressure, but a cold engine at 2000 RPMS for 2 minutes?

So where do I look? I suspect there is yet another assembly problem. Thanks in advance.

Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:01 pm

what size oil pump? Are both valve covers vented? To where? What oil are you using?

If too much oil is being bypassed, sometimes you can get this on the 3/4 side, since that is where the pressure relief is.

Are you sure the dipstick is the proper length, along with marks? When I run a deep sump, I use the "fill" line as my FULL line, and the bottom of the stick as my add line. Basically running it 1/2 qt low, I have always had better oil vapor control doing it this way.

Also, while idling, place a hand on the valve cover and feel if it's moving (rockers hitting it). Check both.

Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:09 pm

For valve covers I have had really good luck with SCAT stainless ones that have the 5 tabs to hold gaskets in place and with SCAT bails.... But usually help thing a bit with some gasket sealer on valve cover only side of gasket (valve cover side because its easy to clean)...

IF you have a lot of oil coming out of valve covers you have a excessive amount being pumped up to valve covers or you have a real problem with oil draining back to crank case....

What is condition of oil pressure and oil relief plungers and springs...

Dale

Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:16 pm

Remove the valve cover and inspect the heads sealing surface very carefully for nicks or imperfections. Clean the valve cover seal surface very well. Apply gasket sealer on a new valve cover gasket and seal to the valve cover. Put on the valve cover with the gasket dry against the head. Let it sit overnight to cure. start engine and look for leakes.

Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:24 pm

Was thinking about double checking the dipstick length. But if it oil was too high, would it not be visible in the pushrod tubes? Its not. Its a new aftermarket dipstick that was supplied with the new engine. Rockers are not hitting valve covers. Definatley were not hitting the Empi or Scats.

Was a NEW engine, so the presure relief and all that was supposed to new. Have been thinking about that being a possible issue though. What would my oil pressure be like in that case? Will be installing my VDO pressure gauge tomorrow for testing

The engine has had BOTH valve covers vented - but not this last test that I just did with stock ones.. Scats I had on it are the ones with the tabs - still leaked. (Third set of valve covers at this point). And I know how to install gaskest - have 5 ACWVS - done a couple valve adjustments and oil changes over the years.

Head surfaces are fine - and BOTH valve covers are leaking huge. Wasnt as bad with the vented covers since I suspect the excess oil was being pushed up the breather hoses.
Oil is 15-40 Rotella (I use this was ZDDP additive in all my VWS)

Oil pump is a CB Performance filter/pump.

OK - So hypothetically, lets say oil level is fine, no visible obstructions in pushrod tubes. Bad or stuck pressure relief could cause excessive oil volume?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:42 pm

Do you have the Berg breather tower vented to the air? Or do you have it set up as a closed system. It seems like you have excessive case pressure. I had the same problem and as soon as I had a couple holes vented to the air, all my leaks stopped. Do you know the compression ratio? What kind of rings?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:44 pm

Clyde Berg Box - breather cap at the top is connected to the air filter. Wondering if a stuck closed oil control valve could cause this? Excuse my ignorance, never had to diagnose oil system before.

I believe the compression ratio is around 8. Compression test shortly after installing the engine was around 145 give or take 1 or 2 lbs in all cylinders. I dont know what kind of rings. Once again - seriously thinking that I have a ton of oil geting pumped into the valve covers.

Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:52 pm

I think Roy may be onto it, the breather must vent to the air or air filter (better, a little negative pressure to ensure ventilation is in correct direction.)

You didn't actually mention what size oil pump you have, though - an oversize pump can pump all the oil from a deep sump into the covers, where there really isn't enough room. Stock covers usually can contain it, though.

Overfilled engine oil won't necessarily be visible through the pushrod tubes, but I doubt it would cause what you descrbe anyway. You can check your dipstick by filling the engine to .5l less than your target, it should be near the low mark, then add the last .5 l and it should be at full.

Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:58 pm

My breather box (Clyde, not Gene Berg) is vented to the outside via the air cleaner - And am currently at the lower line on my dipstick. I don not know the size of the oil pump - CB Performance filter pump is all I know. Looks like their Maxi-pump with 26 mm gears,
Haven been back down to the shop since I posted this. Just reading and learning - still coming back to - If my pressure control valve is messed up, would it cause my problem?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:05 pm

If it were sticking closed or had far too much pressure on the spring it would make sense.

Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:08 pm

Stupid question - how possible/likely is it that someone grabbed the wrong spring when assembling? Like I said there have been NUMEROUS sloppy build issues on this engine (loose case bolts, improperly sealed cylinders, etc).

Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:11 pm

What kind of pushrod tubes are you using, regular, windage or CB widemouth?????It sounds like an oil RETURN problem I've run 20w50 with a big CB filterpump and 6000rpm and never had a problem like this. The springs are considerably different It would be very hard to put the long spring in where the short one should go.

brad

Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:24 pm

I agree that is seems to be an oil return problem. The pushrod tubes appear to be the standard stainless ones. Dont look like the big mouth ones. Once again - Stone cold engine - running for about 2 minutes at about 2000 RPMS.

Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:32 pm

with the valve cover off and a small flashlight....can you see through the pushrod tubes to the lifters?.

Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:55 pm

Are you sure oil is leaking out the valve cover gasket and not out the push rod tube seals?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:09 pm

or a crack in the head... Sounds like something is being overlooked

Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:20 pm

Andk, as you mentioned in your 2nd post, did you check your aftermarket dipstick against a genuine VW dipstick?

Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:22 pm

Not sure if its the problem but its pretty darn cold in pa. now and that 15-40 is pretty thick. Acme should help you out but you may have to haul the engine back there,they seem like good people.Best of luck with it.

Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:24 pm

I can see the lifters through the pushrod tubes. The oil is absolutley leaking from the valve covers - even coming from around the top. And yeah its cold outside - but I am working on the car in a heated bay - door is only open when I fire it up.

I picked up some clear 1/2" ID hose. Going to do 3 things tomorrow. Blow through the breather port on the oil filler and make sure it doesnt feel restricted and do the same thing up to my breather box as well. Then going to put one of the vented valve covers back on with the clear hose going up toward the roof and see if it actually fills the hose up (vent on the valve covers is toward the top.

Then going to pull the pressure control and relief valves and see if the wrong springs are in. Would not be shocked at all.

As far as Acme being good people, yeah - thats what I thought too. Thats why I got the engine from them. I paid a LOT for this thing and the first time I got it the cam went flat (within 10 miles) - I followed Jims break in procedure to a T and used quality oil with zddp additive. Paid a bunch to have it fixed since it was my fault (???). Engine also had case bolts loose above and below oil pump - leaked like crazy until I torqued them. When it was being rebuilt, Jim decided that the crank pulley hole was out of round which is why it was leaking(???)- not the case bolts(???). He put a machine in sand seal that I paid for. I had to fix that later since the seal was spinning. Was also dumping oil out down the one side of the case at the base of #3 cylinder. I pulled the head and #3 just about fell out. Had to fix that. Dont even want to talk about the ration of crap I got from Mackel......Yeah - good people. This is the first time that I have publicly vented about this - I am so sick of the mistakes one after the other on this engine. If I had given a guy $500 to do a quick rebuild, then I wouldnt complain, but I spent MANY thousands on this piece of crap.......

Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:02 pm

Would be helpful to see a picture of the thing, so we can see how the breather is setup.

Unless something is way out of whack, may want to do a leakdown test before anything else. Broken piston ring or who knows what could be making for lots of blow-by