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Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:25 pm

The pinion bearing nut (80mm) is torqued to 160ft lbs, you need the socket that is made for it. It is not cheap, but only way to get nut tight enough to keep it from backing off. If it does ring&pinion goes bye,bye and then you looking at a very expensive repair.
You also need tool for side gear adjusters or make one. as you need preload on the carrier bearings or same thing happens to R&P.
Things to replace are shift ball with steel one, Mainshaft Thrust Plate, Chromoly 80mm pinion nut(one without the flange), final drive seals, mainshaft seal, nosecone bushing and seal, Gasket set has some seals you need.
I have no idea your experience in transmission repairs, but from my experience of working on VW trans for more than 40 years they require tools and jigs that you would not have use on many other brands of trans.
Tooling up do a VW trans correctly in not cheap and unless you plan on doing more of them it is not cost effective. Yes some tools can be made if you have the knowlege and fab skills to do it.

With the size of side and spider gears, you really do not need a SuperDiff unless you have an extreme amount of torque or using the steering brake a lot when under power.
I wish you the best of luck with putting the trans back together and hope every goes all right.
Buying a Bentley type II factory manual would be a good investment with pictures of tools, specs, and torque settings.
Also check with www.longenterprises.com for parts and they have DVD's on rebuilding trans.

Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:17 pm

jsturtlebuggy wrote: The pinion bearing nut (80mm) is torqued to 160ft lbs, you need the socket that is made for it. It is not cheap, but only way to get nut tight enough to keep it from backing off. If it does ring&pinion goes bye,bye and then you looking at a very expensive repair.
You also need tool for side gear adjusters or make one. as you need preload on the carrier bearings or same thing happens to R&P.
Things to replace are shift ball with steel one, Mainshaft Thrust Plate, Chromoly 80mm pinion nut(one without the flange), final drive seals, mainshaft seal, nosecone bushing and seal, Gasket set has some seals you need.
I have no idea your experience in transmission repairs, but from my experience of working on VW trans for more than 40 years they require tools and jigs that you would not have use on many other brands of trans.
Tooling up do a VW trans correctly in not cheap and unless you plan on doing more of them it is not cost effective. Yes some tools can be made if you have the knowlege and fab skills to do it.

With the size of side and spider gears, you really do not need a SuperDiff unless you have an extreme amount of torque or using the steering brake a lot when under power.
I wish you the best of luck with putting the trans back together and hope every goes all right.
Buying a Bentley type II factory manual would be a good investment with pictures of tools, specs, and torque settings.
Also check with www.longenterprises.com for parts and they have DVD's on rebuilding trans.
For starters I am by no means suggesting to be able to compete with 40 years of experience and have no desire to to build transaxles beyond this one. I am just the sort who enjoys taking things apart and putting them together again.

I am a machinist by trade, I already made the side plate tool using one of lock plates. I measured and marked the side nuts such that I can put every thing back together just as it was with the old parts.

Neither the type 1 or 002 had 160lbs on the pinion nut, maybe they were both loose. So long as it is just a matter of preventing the nut from backing off I can get it tighten up the same way I got it off plus some wicking lock-tite and call it good.

As I understand it, the jig is only needed to set the shift fork position. I could be wrong on this! For this reason I did not loosen the shift forks.

Are saying the pinion nut needs to be changed out?

I noticed that a lot of sand pro 002's do not come with an upgraded diff, maybe the super is not needed? I do use the cutting brakes more than the steering wheel though!

I have rebuilt manual transmissions before, but have not set up a ring and pinion. Generally I am the type who can do most any thing given adequate guidance from helpful forum members plus a few good YouTube video's.

For the moment I need to find a seal kit, steel shift ball, then look in to whether I need the super diff or not.

Thank you for your advise. I will check out the long enterprise link.

Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:26 pm

I have always been curious too when it comes to mechanical things.
All I am trying to point out a VW trans is very different than what you would fine a typical American or Japanese vehicle.
Since it is a combo of trans and differential (transaxle) it not as simple.
It sounds like you have experience and figure out how to make tools so that make you above many that have tried doing their own repairs.
Different jigs are need for different trans or a universal one.

The stock pinion nut is not very strong and it is recommended to replace every time it is removed. They have been known to strip under extreme conditions. That why I would recommend replacing with a chromoly one.

If the mainshaft bearing is moving in gear carrier the fix is to replace or have it sleeved. To help keep it in place a thrust plate is available. If your nosecone (shift housing) shows signs of bearing wearing into it from the bearing moving, this allows the gear stack to move forward which is not good.

It is also recommended to reinforce the U-bracket for the shift linkage. The ears have been known to break off. Both thrust plate and modified U-bracket are pictured above. The spring loaded pieces in the picture are of a 091 trans. This is for when you are in neutral it is always between 1st&2nd.

I highly recommend you get the pinion socket, it is very important the pinion nut is tighten properly. And only use blue loctite on the nut. Since the pinion bearing is held in place with 3 flat parts in the case and strip easily when to much leverage is used on them.
From my own experiece of having the nut come loose and loosing a R&P during a short course off road race by trying to use something different than the correct socket. Bought the good socket the next week and never had it happen again.

As for where the side adjusters are where you marked them, more than likely they will need adjusted more inward for preload. For an off road car you set them up tighter than you would for a street car. You make it so you can still spin the diff by hand, but it not free wheeling.

For Backlash of R&P I set up for .007 to .010". This looser than some would set it, my reasoning is with running off road or in the sand, transaxles run hotter then on the street. and you want the clearance when things get warm.
These are my own ideas, others have their way of doing things and may have better ideas or ways to do things.

Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:05 pm

Thank you!

I see that I should add the the high end pinion nut to the list!

I am not finding any signifigant amount of wear on this trans and I am really finicky about worn bushings being machinist.

I would like to swap up to the super Diff for peace of mind so long as I can find good set up instructions before hand. To complicate things they are offered in both 10 and 11 tooth configurations I have no idea why one would be better than the other.

The back lash on ring gear was in the .010 range before I took it apart, that part I think I can handle.

Setting the preload will be a little more difficult. Is it measured with an indicator or is set more by feel, rotating but not free wheeling? Ring gear on or off?

I am sure there is a book that lines things out, but the very reason I use forums is for the oppertunity to pick the minds of people more knowledgable than my self and learn enough to get a job done right with out having to farm out work or order a book I will only use once.

I know knowledge does not come free and respect those who earn their living by it, but there are also people like me who enjoy helping those who are daring enough to try some thing they have never done before.

Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:47 pm

The preload the way I do it is by feel on the type II trans with everything in place as so you can also check the back lash too.
I sure if you wanted to you could do it by case deflection as with the Medeola trans (which is a big step over a type II in diferential componets) which is how you check the preload. You check to see how far case bows out.
I don't mine sharing knowledge as it has been one way I learned many things. I just not going to hold someone's hand all they way through a process for free. Have been bitten in the ass too many times.

Personally if you are going to change out your differential you might want to thing about replacing it with a type II 091 diff. Your ring gear fits on it, has larger side and spider gears (close to what in a Ford 9in). You do change side adjusters, seals, bearings, drive flanges, and snap rings.
www.weddleindustries.com in Goleta use to sell a kit with all the parts needed to do it.
Another thing I found out, is the flange caps in drive flanges will get torn up and start leaking oil if you are using aftermarket axles. I have just used silicone to fill the gap around the snap rings and side gear splines and let the axles touch the end of the side gears. With this I also taper the end of the axles to help keep the splines from getting to beat up.

Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:11 am

I radius the ends of my axles so as not to kill another set of drive seals. Cut them to length and 45* chamfered the corners the first time and seals failed after one trip to the dunes.

So if I understand you correctly, I can put every thing together loosely and get a feel for no preload then set the the back lash and add preload evenly on each side until there starts to be some drag. Double check back lash and call it good?

I know it is only a sand car...

There are some jobs at work that need to have exact tolerances though most with experience can be done by feel. I make mostly tractor parts and the boss constantly reminds me that they run in the dirt so leave extra clearance.
I like things a little to the tight side myself.

Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:32 am

Yes I do it by feel. I use the final drive flanges to turn by hand. You want as much preload as you can get and still be able to turn it.
The reasoning is to try and keep ring gear deflection to a minimum.
There is no bronze load bolt as in transaxles made for racing like a Fortin, Mendeola, or Albins that use the bronze load bolt to keep ring gear from deflecting away from the pinion.

Here is a picture of what I do instead of using the flange caps. I use silicone to fill area around where flange cap would set. Picture is of a type I drive flange, type II is the same only larger.

Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:14 pm

Well I think I am very fortunate, I talked to one of my older friends today, actually the one who introduced me to sand cars. Turns out he was a Volkswagen mechanic in the late 70's and just happens to still have a full set of dealer tools and jigs for setting up transaxles collecting dust in his body shop!

So I can do this job the right way now, ( I only talked to him briefly and have no idea if he sets up the ring and pinion by feel or not) I may have to wait a few weeks to for him to have the time to help. That will give me time to get the parts together.

Next question,

Are the the close ratio 3rd and 4th worth it?
Are they stronger?
How do you go about deciding on which ratio to go with?

Thank you guys for getting me this far!

I feel a lot better about doing this now that I will access to the correct tools.

Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:30 am

Ok, now you have decided to step into the deep end of the pool and start changing gearing.
Be prepared to spend around $500 for 3rd and 4th gear sets.
There are many charts available for figuring out what tire size, RPM, and MPH you want to go.
Once you decide to do one thing it will lead to another and soon you will have over $2,000 in parts alone.
Have you driven the buggy with the gearing you have? This can give you and idea what way you want to go in gearing change.
Rule of thumb smaller engine size tighter gearing, larger engine size wider spacing of gearing.
For and example, Using a 5.375 R&P with a stock 1st gear with a 30in tire is kind of useless except for crawling. So you going to want to change 1st & 2nd (has to be done since 1st,2nd share shaft) $700 and up for set.
And this goes on and on.
Stock 3rd and 4th gears are strong (except for fine teeth ones) for most. If you have a big engine and like to land with power on then you need racing gears.

My suggestion would be to put back together what you have and run it. It you don't like it find a 091 trans which has a 4.57 R&P. It really better suited to running in the sand.

Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:13 pm

Run it the way it is first. That is some wisdom there!

This 80 dollar trans axle could easily be swapped out if I don't like it for less than the cost of seals! Since it looks like it is all in good shape I think I will do the seals, steel shift ball and head duty pinion nut. The super diff is still the question, at 200.00 it won't break the bank, but do I really need it?

Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:12 pm

In a word, No.
There is pro and con on the idea.
Compare a swingaxle diff verses a IRS diff, the IRS diff is more enclosed and it harder for spiders to move away from side gears.
Use it the way it is and if you break a spider, step up to the 091 diff, it is all most the same size as a Ford 9in.
If do want a SuperDiff you really want to step up to the Chromoly ones, the cheap ones can have a lot of run out at ring gear area.