TheSamba.com :: View topic

Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:15 pm

Hey Guys

So i have this 1960 VW Bug 1600DP Swingaxle. It was a baja when i purchased it. GUY DID SUCH A HORRIBLE JOB ON THE BODY, i managed to put it to a ratrod.

Anyhow, i am LOW in the rear now. Recently, i have been only drove it a few times, it had stripped one drum, with the axle nut on and the cotter pin still attached. No biggy, replaced went to drag day, BOOM! but this time it broke the cotterpin, luckly i had pulled off to the side and towed her home. This is obviously the notorious rear driver side.

I know everyone posts about torquing them correctly, i have a 5ft cheater so ill redo her and see what happens maybe some red loctite.

My question is, is it really an issue because i am lowered? I see so many bugs lowered with the same camber as mine, does everyone have this isssue? Should i raise her back up?

I remember i had a 70's lowered the same way, 3 clicks, and never had this issue. Or is this a swingaxle thing?

Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:24 pm

3 things to look for.

First, yes the camber will kill the drum! Running low with a lot of camber puts tremendous side loads on the drum around the spines. They aren't designed for that type of continuous load. And as you see, the centers blow out. Poor toe settings with that camber will also make things worse!

2nd, the nut needs to be tight! And tight on these isn;t as tight as you can get it with a 3/8 Taiwan ratchet! (Unless you have a Torque Tool)
The nut needs to in spec.

If the nut isn't as tight as it should be, then the drum is able to move on the splines a bit. We're talking microscopic movement here! But that starts wear on the splines and so the amount of movement increases and sooner or latter you have so much slop in the splines that things just can;t take it anymore and they blow out.

3rd, Brazillion drums suck. You may have better success with German drums, but you'll always have poor success with Barzillion ones.
Running low looks cool to some folks, but it doesn’t do any good for the car. It really increases the loads and stress on the drums, wheel bearings, tires, and fulcrum plates.

So you need to ask yourself just what cost are you willing to pay to run low? If this is getting to be too much for you, raise it up a bit and the costs will go down.

Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:29 pm

Yea, i was affraid of being too low. Ill get some photos of her shortly and post her up.

I was looking into getting that torque dude tool, but again, which ones are good and not? They all look the same, its not like harborfreight and craftsmen. Because there is no brand name on them.

Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:25 am

I don't think it really matters too much which one you choose. Some are pretty high dollar, some are not. The less expensive one sold by CIP1 and other places works very well for the hobbiest.

Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:54 pm

Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:05 pm

Mine sits like this and I have about 5k miles and knock wood I haven't stripped any hubs. I am using factory drums.

Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:06 pm

I did have to replace the tires at about 4k miles.

Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:50 pm

Thats about how mine sits... maybe when i dropped her i didnt torque it correctly. Im about 3mm from being lined up on the castle nut. already broken rachet and breaker bar (craftsman) on it. Going to take her to the shop and have them do it... Drive slow i guess.

How are you tightening your axle nut?

Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:26 pm

bajatovolks wrote: Im about 3mm from being lined up on the castle nut. already broken rachet and breaker bar (craftsman) on it. Going to take her to the shop and have them do it... Drive slow i guess.

How are you tightening your axle nut?

Let me guess - you had a 1/2" drive breaker bar? Those are just not strong enough for that axle nut.

I use a 3/4" Breaker bar, 1 7/16" socket (bought back in 1990 or so from Sears) or the 36mm socket that was in a 3/4" drive metric set from Harbor Freight I got a few years after that, and I do use the "slider" breaker bar from that kit as well - and with both of those, I use the long handle from one of my floor jacks as a cheater pipe.

Now, if that "torque dude" tool had been around 23 years ago I'd probably have gotten it and been happy with it. But I'm used to the breaker bar. I've put some incredible amount of torque on it without any problems. On my Baja I have offset wide rims on the back, and those are also kind of hard on drums, so I overtighten to the next hole lining up from where I'd otherwise pin the axle nut.

This is that torque multiplier style tool:

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D7036

-Andy

Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:00 pm

bajatovolks wrote: Im about 3mm from being lined up on the castle nut. already broken rachet and breaker bar (craftsman) on it. Going to take her to the shop and have them do it... Drive slow i guess.

How are you tightening your axle nut?

Not picking on you, just using your misfortune to point something out to others.

You balked at the price of the torque tool. But after breaking a ratchet and a breaker bar, and now having to take it to a shop and pay them, you have spent WAY more then the cost of the torque tool!

You really aren't running low enough for this to be an issue! Either you didn't have them tight, or you are using cheap drums.

And remember when you do get it to the shop you are going to, make sure THEY know what the torque specs are!!!!! Other wise they will just make it tight (in their minds) and you’ll have the same problem again.

Also be ready for the axle seal to leak while you drive it there. The nut has to be tight for that to stop leaking. So the shop may hit you extra for cleaning up the leak and replacing the seal kit.

Or if the nut isn’t tight, you may get to see the wheel drive away without you while you slowly coast to the shoulder in a shower of sparks.

Suddenly that $70 torque tool isn’t so expensive. Especially when you consider that you will need it again when it comes time to replace brake shoes.

Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:34 pm

It must be cheap drums I had mine lower then that with no problems buy the tool you will need it again.

Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:59 pm

kokanee wrote: It must be cheap drums I had mine lower then that with no problems buy the tool you will need it again.

I agree... That isn't low enough to cause serious issues... other then accelerated tire wear. Use quality drums and torque to specs..

Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:40 am

Thanks for the replies. Ill post pictures of the camber from far. I had taken it down the street to a buddy's shop. They used a 1inch 1000lb rated impact. All seems well now, for the past day or so. When i took it there i could tell the nuts had moved somewhat as they were sitting directly on the cotter pins.

Torque dude tool will have to be purchased soon as i have to replace the e-brake cables.

Also, if you guys can chime in. Sometimes i have trouble shifting into reverse and 3rd gears. I had taken the shifter off to replace the bushing and coupler. I see that the shift rod cup sits a little back, meaning when i install the shifter the cup sits more towards the trans and not in the middle of the opening for the shifter. So when im shifting, 2nd makes the shifter point straight up middle. while first is up at an angle forward. I have read (on chirco i think) that my shift rod for a 60 is suppose to be straight with no bend?

I had taken my rod out to replace that bushing with the black ring and did notice a bend. Do i just have a worn shifter?

Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:40 pm

Update, just today, on lunch, heard a vibration sound from the rear. Went back to check. DAMN CASTLE NUT IS SNUG AGAINST COTTERPIN.

Went back to the office to find the castle nut sheared off the cotter pin and is hand LOOSE. WTH PPL!!!!!!!!!! CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:36 pm

bajatovolks wrote: Update, just today, on lunch, heard a vibration sound from the rear. Went back to check. DAMN CASTLE NUT IS SNUG AGAINST COTTERPIN.

Went back to the office to find the castle nut sheared off the cotter pin and is hand LOOSE. WTH PPL!!!!!!!!!! CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!

that sucks, beating a dead horse here, but that torque tool is priceless.

80 bucks is way cheaper than accidents and injuries.

Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:00 pm

Dubbydubdub wrote: bajatovolks wrote: Update, just today, on lunch, heard a vibration sound from the rear. Went back to check. DAMN CASTLE NUT IS SNUG AGAINST COTTERPIN.

Went back to the office to find the castle nut sheared off the cotter pin and is hand LOOSE. WTH PPL!!!!!!!!!! CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!

that sucks, beating a dead horse here, but that torque tool is priceless.

80 bucks is way cheaper than accidents and injuries.

Yep it is also super convenient. Somebody put our castle nuts on at 600(.......why?), determined by a torque wrench and it made it so easy to get off. Take that impact wrench!

Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:05 pm

Could a bad bearing cause the nut to come loose? Talked to paul , from paul works in la habra ca. And he said it may be the bearing? Do I just to get this damntool? 1 inch impact has nothin on this tool?

Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:28 pm

bajatovolks wrote: Could a bad bearing cause the nut to come loose? Talked to paul , from paul works in la habra ca. And he said it may be the bearing? Do I just to get this damntool? 1 inch impact has nothin on this tool?

Nope as far as I know. It came off super easy with it on 600 and you could torque it to 1000 with this tool(why you would want to I don't know).

Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:36 am

Check the splines on your axles. If it has rattled a few drums off the splines could be too small (worn out) and eating drums..

brad

Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:52 am

I've hammered these on with regular ole 1/2 impacts, checked with a torque wrench just to be sure its at least 250 ft lbs.... and Ive never had one come loose, even on lowered rear suspension cars.

Something is worn out, assembled wrong or just plain bad.. further investigation is required. You shouldnt be having continued issues.