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Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:25 pm

Hi all,

I need your help coming up with a shopping list for everything required to build a new Manxter from scratch and without a donor bug. If such a list exists, please let me know. My priorities include safety, reliability, classic VW sound, and pride in building it. My kids will ride in it too. It will need to be street legal too and registered or register-able.

I'd like to think that I can start with a donor bug, but think I need new tube chassis and frame for first priority (safety) and new parts for second priority (reliability). Also, I'm no mechanic. So, I'm thinking I'll order the necessary parts for a rolling chassis and ship them to my favorite VW mechanic to assemble. Then I get a Manxter kit from the Meyers' and assemble the body to the rolling chassis myself at home. This way I minimize compromising important stuff like brakes, fuel lines, engine/trany mounts, etc. and perhaps get it all done in one summer - quicker than if I tried to assemble the roller myself. I could do the electrical myself too.

Literally, I'll be going to JC Whittney, Mid American Motorworks, J Bugs, etc and planning this all out for cost and availability before starting. All parts listed below should be readily available on the web and not require a donor bug. Please tell me what I'm missing.

The List (complete kits preferred vs separate parts):

- Manxter 2+2 kit from meyersmanx.com
- tube chassis from manxchassis.com
- seats from PRPseats.com

- rear IRS suspension (need details on what to buy)
- adjustable ball joint front axle (need details on what to buy)
- adjustable rear spring plates (need details on what to buy)
- transmission straps (need details on what to buy)
- disk brake system (need details on what to buy)
- transmission (opinions on what to use appreciated)
- shocks (opinions on what to use appreciated)
- steering components (need details on what to buy)
- anything else needed to complete front end
- clutch system (need details on what to buy)
- shift handle (need details on what to buy)
- emergency brake system (need details on what to buy)
- engine (need details on what to buy)
- exhaust (need details on what to buy)
- ignition (need details on what to buy)
- electrical system (need details on what to buy)
- fuel system (need details on what to buy)
- accelerator system (need details on what to buy)
- gauges (need details on what to buy)

Direct links to complete kits much appreciated! (example: "complete front end" if that exists)

Thanks,
Dave

Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:09 am

A talk with David Barrett, when you order the chassis, and you will have all the correct answers to
most of your questions. Also, there some Manxter builders who post at
www.manxclub.yuku.com who can provide answers.

Figure on spending 15 - 20K before your are done. Properly assembled it is a great vehicle. It would take someone with very deep pockets to buy mine.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:32 am

If you are going to farm out all the mechanical you are going to spend a small fortune. You may be better off buying one already built.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:13 am

x2 on buying one already built. Over the last 40 + years, I have built 4 kit cars and have restored two '66 Mustangs and a '63 Chevy truck. I drive my current project woods buggy which was 100% hand fabricated in my garage.

There's a therapeutic value to all this, so I have never counted my labor as a cost. I like doing this stuff, and it ends up being a hobby that has proven to be less overall expense than if I played golf every weekend. While most of my family and friends think I'm crazy, they also appreciate the one-off aspect of my hand-built projects. With the exception of the pickup truck, I could have bought ANY of these vehicles for less money than I spent on parts.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:46 am

So many things on your list are really based on individual taste and budget.

Some examples:

Shifter handle: do you want a $400 Black Mamba shifter, a $250 Gene Berg, or a $50 chinese empi style?

Gauges: VDO. Autometer, Speedhut? What style, what price, what number of gauges?

Engine: Wow...HUGE spectrum here. Whats the budget? Whats your desire for performance? So so many variables.

The same can be said for the exhaust, the clutch, the transmission, etc etc etc.

These are incredibally unique vehicles that are built from mild to wild. You need to be way more specific in your budget and desires.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:00 am

admatian wrote: Hi all,

Literally, I'll be going to JC Whittney, Mid American Motorworks, J Bugs, etc and planning this all out for cost and availability before starting. All parts listed below should be readily available on the web and not require a donor bug. Please tell me what I'm missing.

Thanks,
Dave

I'm not adding much here except to say that you'll be in the thousands on shipping alone.

If you are doing it yourself, best to start with a great donor.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:33 am

You could contact Kevin (goes by coolrydes on the Samba) at Mendola Performance Suspensions (619) 710-4946.
They can build you a Manxter with stock VW supension or their own performance A-arm suspension chassis.
And they can build it using a Subaru 5speed trans and Subaru 4 or 6 cylinder engine.
It may not be the cheapest way to go, but since you say your mechanical skills are limited it maybe an easier way to go.
I can tell you knowing someone that has one of Mendeola's Performance Chassis under their Manxter, it handles and rides much better then stock VW suspension for the street.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:53 am

Buy a $1000 donor car.... Other wise you will spend probably $10,000 for all the parts (new) you can find on a donor.... In 2002 I rebuild a complete manx style buggy yes it was a complete running buggy when I started and when it was finished it was a complete running buggy, but there was at least $9000 invested it to rebuild (still today I have not got grand total because of alot of the purchase were not recorded on spread sheet) and that does no include the hours I put into rebuild as labor was not recorded or priced out.... If labor was calculated in it was probably around another $10,000 to $15,000 into build price....

You have chose absolutely the most expensive concept in doing a build one could possible make, in the end you could save thousands by getting donor car... You will probably spend 15,000 to 25,000 in build and when car is done it may only be worth $7,000 to $10,000 If you find a fool to buy it at auction....

IF you insist on all new at least start with a Dave Barrett chassis .... He will create a quality chassis to your specifications and it will not break the bank....

Why do you think a new Mendeola build starts around $25,000 and only go up from there...

http://mendeolamotors.com/motors/

Dale

Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:37 am

Here is one for sale already done.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1463661

I have more than that in parts alone in my Manxter Dual Sport and built it myself.

Have you compared the price between a built VW engine verses a Subaru engine? Factor in the reliability of each engine when making a decision.
I found that www.outfrontmotorsports.com is very helpful when it comes to answers about Subaru questions.
I switch to a Subaru 2.5L engine for mine, because of the amount of power and reliability I could get compared to a what it take to make a large CC VW engine make power and the reliability and longevity of them.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:24 am

I'm so glad that you guys are posting the true cost in building a Manx kit car. For years we've been building cars for people who simply want a "turn key" Manx. At the same time there are plenty of people saying how these cars that we build are way over priced. As much as we tell people that it actually cost around $18,000 just in parts to build a basic entry level Manxter with a stock 1600cc and all basic parts, they simply say we we are just trying to justify our profit margin. At which time we say "what profit margin", as we make nearly nothing on a base model build, except more exposure for upper level builds.

We are still building vehicles and doing custom work, while we focus on the chassis and suspension business for anyone that would like to have our help or who needs a full build.

Until later have a great day from the crew at Mendeola !!!!

Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:04 am

Just got done...well 99% done a ground up build like you describe and I can tell you i'm pushing 18-20K. All work done by me except for turnkey engine.

there are so many little things that begin to add up.

Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:50 am

crowe66 wrote: Just got done...well 99% done a ground up build like you describe and I can tell you i'm pushing 18-20K. All work done by me except for turnkey engine.

there are so many little things that begin to add up.

I concur, I'm in it for about the same but it includes extra shipping and duty costs associated to cross border challenges. We started with a donor but replaced everything and paid a premium for the registered pan.

This is for the Kick-Out but I can't see the Manxter being that different.

Scott posted his rational on buying vs building here:
http://manxclub.yuku.com/topic/936/I-held-out-as-long-as-I-could?page=1#.UXbXaPPD_mg

I think his actions should speak for themselves...

Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:16 pm

IF you want to know true cost of build, build it on on a spread sheet (MS EXCEL) .... I did on my restore, and my race car build, there were three columns, What the item was, what I estimated cost of item, and 3 rd column was actual costs...Total at bottom lines will literally scare you .... Also be sure to add a column for SHIPPING... And besure to record the $3-4 dollars on nuts and bolt you went to hardware store to purchase....

Dale

Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:20 pm

coolrydes wrote: I'm so glad that you guys are posting the true cost in building a Manx kit car. For years we've been building cars for people who simply want a "turn key" Manx. At the same time there are plenty of people saying how these cars that we build are way over priced. As much as we tell people that it actually cost around $18,000 just in parts to build a basic entry level Manxter with a stock 1600cc and all basic parts, they simply say we we are just trying to justify our profit margin. At which time we say "what profit margin", as we make nearly nothing on a base model build, except more exposure for upper level builds.

We are still building vehicles and doing custom work, while we focus on the chassis and suspension business for anyone that would like to have our help or who needs a full build.

Until later have a great day from the crew at Mendeola !!!!

We tell it like it is "because it is what it is"....

And we respect your builds, you guys at Mendeola produce awsome machines....

Dale

Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:31 pm

Hi guys,

Well, I answered my own question and realized what the kit car phenomenon is, at it's root, all about for me. Family. Lineage. Bonding. Creation.

I actually did make a list titled "build vs buy" and wrote down all the benefits of each. In the end, the number of items on the buy list was much more than the number of items in the build list. I felt though that there was still something in my gut that kept me from chosing to buy. So then I went back and added value to each of the items and realized what it was inside. There was the chance to bond with my father and son, to make a three generation link around a common goal, to bring us together and give my mom a reason to expect our company at their house. I decided we'd build the buggy at my parent's house - the now empty nest will be having some regular company.

It wasn't an easy choice and the accountant inside didn't agree. But, when you have a rose in your hand, you smell it, appreciate it, and look squarely at it. I know many are not blessed with the company of their fathers or their sons. I have that fortune and for those who do not, I will emrace it on their behalf as well and embark on the project which, hopefully, in the end will leave much more than a car.

I'll keep you all posted on the progress,
Dave

Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:52 am

I think your heart is in the right place, just make sure your father and son are into it. I try to get my son involved all the time and he has no interest (he's still only 6 :D ).

In the end, would you enjoy time in a garage with the family or time in a buggy with them? If you're not doing it for yourself you may not have the motivation to finish if the vision of a family project falls apart. Not saying it will, every family is different but it didn't work out that way for me.

Will all that said, there is no better feeling than the first ride in a buggy that you built yourself.

Good luck with whichever path you take.

Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:03 am

Mike said it nicely, "every family is different"...

Worked out well for my wife and I.

Set small atainable goals and work towards completing them. Most importantly: HAVE FUN doing it!

Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:14 am

I wish you much luck. My son (now 13) and I started down the path of buying used and fixing up. We soon realized that it was simply going to take too long. For us, it was basketball, football, baseball, band, etc.. etc.. I found myself working alone on the buggy because he did not have the time. So, we went a different route. I hired out the work knowing it was going to cost me a small fortune... and believe me, I feel very lucky to have that option. Doing that though allowed us to "pick out" what we wanted together and have a professional build it. It also allowed me to attend more of his games and even help as an assistant coach at his practices. Time with loved ones is sooo much more precious that money because you can never get time back. Now the buggy will be done in a few weeks rather than 5 years from now.

"every family is different" is so very true. The important thing is that your heart is in the right place and you find something that will bond you together and keep you in each others lives. It makes me smile knowing you guys have found that. :)

Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:27 am

I built ours in secret, for my wife's 40th Birthday. You can read all about it in my build thread. I did most of the work alone. I did have some help from my wife's father and brother and it was nice during those times to work on it with someone.

I had visions in my head of the wife and I working on it together, My son and I wrenching on the motor, my dad coming to the VW shows to admire my elite craftsmanship. When those visions fell flat I was disappointed with them for not wanting to be involved, but they were my visions, not theirs.

I've since learned that this is my interest, and that I do it because I like it. I like the people I have met, the things I have learned and the experiences I have had.

What I'm saying is that in the end it has to be something that you want to do for yourself, and if others are interested, then that's great, it's a wonderful hobby to share with family members, but be realistic in your expectations of their involvement because they might not be into it as much as you are.

And Vincent, you are a lucky man. I love reading about your travels and France is the coolest. I don't know of too many other buggy wives that would ride a bizillion miles in a dune buggy for weeks at a time and then DO IT AGAIN. You guys rock, can't wait to see you again at MOTB, bring some of that warm whisky maple stuff! I got some Doon Buggy wine!

Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:06 am

jspbtown wrote: So many things on your list are really based on individual taste and budget.

Some examples:

Shifter handle: do you want a $400 Black Mamba shifter...

Damnit. I did not know that this shifter existed and wish I still didn't as I now need to have it!