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Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:27 pm

I have been thinking it would be fun to build a 1/4 scale working model of a VW engine. Ideally there would be some accurate 3D models or copies of blueprints floating around to be downloaded. Has anyone ever stumbled across such?

Thanks :)

Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:53 pm

Dream on, buddy.

Any "blueprints" of the VW air-cooled engines that existed were probably destroyed by VW years ago,
on strong recommendation of their legal department.

Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:52 pm

I doubt they destroyed them, they may have been lost over time but not destroyed. They would never release them I'm sure :(

Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:35 pm

if you are a engineer you should be able to figure out the calculations for the smaller VW engine. This would be a huge project but really cool. good luck :D

Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:54 pm

It's been done before. You need to take a bit of artistic license, as some things (like pushrods) don't scale proportionately. Spark plugs are normally not readily available to scale, so you need to use existing parts available from model shops. The easiest way is to make a model that looks like a VW, and is based on measurements you make of an existing engine. This might help you get started, it is a 1600 case.

Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:33 am

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30 years ago I worked in a shop were the president of the company would buy "The Latest" design from a competitor,
and a crew would rip it appart and then "reverse engineer" it.
These days it's as simple as 3D lasers and scanning, and cleaning up the data.
All that being said, the VW case is a pretty simple when you break it down to it's sub-systems.
The drawing above shows only the dimensions for one sub-system,
but when I tried converting dimensions to mm, they didn't clean up into nice round numbers like I expected.

Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:53 am

ach60 wrote:
30 years ago I worked in a shop were the president of the company would buy "The Latest" design from a competitor,
and a crew would rip it appart and then "reverse engineer" it.
These days it's as simple as 3D lasers and scanning, and cleaning up the data.
All that being said, the VW case is a pretty simple when you break it down to it's sub-systems.
The drawing above shows only the dimensions for one sub-system,
but when I tried converting dimensions to mm, they didn't clean up into nice round numbers like I expected.

I've had that drawing for a while, and can't remember what site it's from. Pity, as I would assume that there may be more. I suspect that if someone was really keen to build the model, that they would have to pull down a spare engine, and start measuring. I've built miniature single cylinder engines in the past, but when the model aeroplane stuff started to get so common the novelty wore off :lol:

Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:58 am

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=aG8vvqE5GV0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DaG8vvqE5GV0

This is a video of a running miniature VW engine.

Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:21 am

Very cool video! Also thanks for the case images, all of this makes for a good start. I thought I would find out what is out there first before reinventing the wheel, so to speak.

I used to have a small CMM in my lab at the university but we sold it as it almost never got used. You guys are correct that many things don't scale, oil passages are another one I can think of that have to at least be a certain size in order to get enough flow at low pressures.

Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:42 am

This is a pretty basic drawing, but it looks like it might be a start..

http://grabcad.com/library/vw-motor

Lots more VW stuff on there too..

http://grabcad.com/library?per_page=20&query=vw

.

Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:47 am

This would be childs play. I once held a working 7 cylinder radial airplane engine in the palm of my hand

brad

Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:09 am

slalombuggy wrote: This would be childs play. I once held a working 7 cylinder rotary airplane engine in the palm of my hand

brad

Love those minature radial engines. How those guys machine that stuff just amazes me.

Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:12 pm

Just FYI, there's a difference between the "radial" and "rotary" engines. In the aviation world a "rotary" engine has a crankshaft that is fixed to the airframe, and the pistons/cylinders rotate around it. The carb intake is usually drawn through the crank, if I remember correctly.

Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:31 am

Yep, knew I had the wrong word but couldn't think of it.....editted

brad

Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:35 pm

This is a great idea, there seems to be no 3D models of a complete VW beetle and chassis, which is amazing as the bodyshell was the first ever scanned 3D part!

Just a suggestion, but I would wait about a year as 3D scanners are due to become much cheaper (eg fuel3d Scanner etc.). I would then just pull a VW apart and scan the bits in. This would be a good starting point, and then you could modify the parts so the engine would function at 1/4 scale.

If you don't do this, then I am tempted to do it myself as I would love to design a new kit car based on the beetle.

As for a comment above.

kreemoweet wrote: Dream on, buddy.

Any "blueprints" of the VW air-cooled engines that existed were probably destroyed by VW years ago,
on strong recommendation of their legal department.

Not sure about this comment. The Beetle was still in production until 2003, so all drawings would still be available. Just after the war the factory was complete and was shipped back to the UK. It was then shipped back to Germany in 1946 and production began immediately. I'm not sure how this could have been achieved without any blueprints or drawings.

I believe that any vehicle design over 25 years old is out of copyright and also you have rights to produce pattern spare parts on new vehicles, so there are no legal issues to worry about (At least that's how it stands in Europe)

Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:48 pm

I modeled the entire engine and trans from original 1974 drawings. There are many screenshots here on the samba. There are many changes in the parts thou. many fit but have differences.

Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:00 pm

martinprice2004 wrote: Just after the war the factory was complete and was shipped back to the UK. It was then shipped back to Germany in 1946 and production began immediately.

More on this, please. I may be misunderstanding what you said. The factory suffered major bombing damage near the end of the war and much of the equipment had been hidden in various places in the countryside. How could a bomb-damaged factory missing significant quantities of equipment be considered "complete", and how would a factory be "shipped" to the UK?

Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:09 pm

I have access to a handheld 3D scanner.
While it would take time, I could scan a complete engine on a stand.
Precision is +-1mm, which I know is a lot.

It generates a polygonal model which takes a hell of a lot of time to translate into surfaces and most likely even more time for solid modeling which could be used for reproduction.

All though I could generate a kick ass mini 3D model of engines for a desk, maybe even get them printed in metal like material for a kick ass paper weight...

Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:53 pm

Sorry for being off topic and perhaps a misunderstanding in the use of words.

Check out the wikipedia page for the VW Beetle, there are a few facts and links about the shipping to the UK. The factory was bombed, but complete and not dismantled and separated. The major equipment remained.

Factory shipping is done often. Here in the UK it is happening all too often!

An example is the Rover MG factory that was shipped from Birmingham (UK) to China. It was also shipped with many of the key workers. There are comments by them that you think you are in Birmingham until you step out of the door. OK the building is generally not taken, but the production lines in the same configuration, quality control methods etc. are. This is quite common.

Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:17 pm

You missed two crucial words in the Wiki entry: "The Volkswagen factory was handed over by the Americans to British control in 1945; it was to be dismantled and shipped to Britain."

Although that was the intent, it never happened. The British started repairing Allied vehicles in the factory, and then started building Beetles to barter for raw materials and food for the factory workers. Nor did production start "immediately". There are several very good accounts of how the factory struggled mightily to produce cars in those first few years. One of them is "Volkswagen Beetle - The Rise from the Ashes of War".

http://www.amazon.com/Volkswagen-Beetle-Rise-Ashes...hes+of+War

My apologies for having continued the thread hijack, but the story of how the factory got back on its feet is really fascinating.