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Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:26 pm

I have been out of the vw world for 15 years. Now I bought a 1955 oval and will be building an 2275 engine. Back 15 years ago Scat was the product to have. Looks like both company's offer complete engine kits. The question I have is which company makes the better kits SCAT or EMPI? I like what I have read about the HD EMPI engine cases and have not read much about the SCAT cases? What's are your thoughts ?

Thank Ken

Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:51 pm

While I can't speak to Scat, I have been burned by EMPI enough times that they will never see another dollar from me and I do my best to dissuade others from wasting their money. GEX has the most horrific reputation imaginable, EMPI is a half step better.

Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:29 pm

Most common performance engine parts are made in China now. And if they aren't made by the exact same manufacturer, they are made with similar quality. Scat, Bugpack, Empi, and CB Performance all have engine parts made in China that are good quality. Scat's "super case" was nothing more than a factory VW Case with the back of the #3 cylinder area welded up, and all the needed machine work for a stroker engine. Expect to pay about $1300 for a factory VW Case set up for a 2276 these days. Empi's HD Case is an Aluminum reproduction of the factory Magnesium Case with added strength areas, and alleady comes set up for a 2276. These cases are all made by a company called Autolinea, and CB, Bugpack, and Empi sell the EXACT same case. CB does have a version you can get with a raised deck for long rods that's exclusive to them. The Aluminum HD Cases hold up better in performance applications, and usually can be had for less than $900. Scat, and CB are the only companies I know of that have complete long lock engine kits. Scat's kits are good, but IMO there are better part combinations that will produce a better overall engine combo. I feel CB's kits are better if you need an exact kit. Do lots of research here on thesamba, on the ultimate aircooled forum, and talk with any local Aircooled Shops before you make any purchases. Some items have gone down in price, some have stabilized, but for the most part you may be in for a rude awakening of the increase in price of parts, and availability from 15 years ago.

Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:55 pm

No. Empi is still down on quality wrt engine parts compared to the other menthioned.
Some like the mom others like the daugther. I place my bets at Scat and CB. They havent let me down in over 20 years of dealing with them.

T

Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:01 pm

Scat and CB have both sold me bum parts. CB replaced them with new, good parts that fit. Scat sent more parts that didn't. Go figure, the Scat crank and rods I have are beautiful, but the cylinder shims I ordered weren't flat, both sets. Check everything, regardless of where it comes from.

Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:58 pm

Scat has good cranks and rods, other parts I'd be more inclined to buy from CB. Nobody seems to make "good" cylinder spacers except rimco.
Since no one company has all the needed parts..... don't buy a kit.

Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:11 pm

The basic performance brands I look at when building an engine for myself , with no budget are:
crank: Scat,DPR
H beam Rods: Scat, CB, Eagle,bugpack-I heard the empi h beams are fine too, though im undecided atm.
lifters: CB lightwieghts, race probably Udos
cam: Engle or Web
P/Cs: AAs are fine for most builds, mahle, JE/Wiesco. Depends what the application is.
Rockers: Scats, CB has great track records, Non name forged , I wouldnt use higher than 160hp.
P/Rs: chromoly CTF for under 160, Manton for above and race. Some use the HD aluminums, but the sound has never bothered me on Chromoly or manton. Properly cut they can be decently quiet.
Heads: are purely application situational. CB makes great products, the 049s are a hot ticket too. At a high level your going custom regardless. Off the shelf stuff without major modifications is out the door.

Under 160hp the Empi cranks, lifters, rods etc are fine ( IMO) . Higher HP applications i wouldnt take the chance

Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:28 pm

if buying a "kit", i'd go with CB hands down. 8)

Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:24 am

craigman wrote: if buying a "kit", i'd go with CB hands down. 8)

X2 always had good parts and more important good support from CB.

All of jfats808 suggestions are good too.

My first big street motor used all empi internals and I had no issue at around 150hp. Now at over 200 I need more.

One thing I have noticed is CB rockers spec out a little high. Both sets of my 1.4s were around 1.45:1 so take that into account if you use them.

brad

Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:09 am

Thank you everyone for your information. I will research the Samba ultimate aircooled forum. What helps out huge is the info on cylinder spacers who are more accurate. lifter with the right geometry. It sucks to get all that way and having to redo things!

Thank you all for your help,

Ken