TheSamba.com :: View topic - Anyone try using rear disc brakes and front drums?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:41 pm

If the large type 3 drums are a way to get better braking and seem to work then why wouldn't the rear Disc Brakes at half the price not work? More of the weight is at the rear where your stopping power would seem to be benefit maybe more?

Anyone tried this on the Type 1?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:46 pm

I have rear disc on mine, works fine.

Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:54 pm

Parking/emergency brake is easy with a drum; you'll need a disc brake assembly with the ebrake. That would most likely come off something with 4 wheel disc brakes. Good luck on adapting it to a Bug.

Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:16 pm

come on out of the 60's mr bug. they make kits that fit right on for both swing and irs. and relitively cheep too!!

Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:16 pm

All the weight shifts to the front of the car on braking unless you drive in reverse. Putting disks in the rear only is a bad idea and a good way to spin you around in a hard breaking situation.

Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:28 pm

wompninja wrote: All the weight shifts to the front of the car on braking unless you drive in reverse. Putting disks in the rear only is a bad idea and a good way to spin you around in a hard breaking situation.

So the big brake type 3 conversions Spin too? Or is the application or stopping power lessor to where you would not have the problem?

Mark Tucker- You don't have them on the Front? I would rather hear from someone that actually has it setup. What about all the buggies that don't have and brakes in the front?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:23 pm

drums on front.no issues spining around.I doubt the rears with ebrake have much more force than the oe drums,they are single piston not duel piston...but they dont fade. Of corse I still have the oe MC on it so that may also be a reason the rears dont spin it out along with 28+" tall rear tires. witch affects braking a lot,I think it's a leverage thing....
I have front disc but just havent put them on,Im building a narrower beam&do it all at once.(Im in no hurry either)

Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:04 pm

I've tried most of the combinations, and decided I prefer a single circuit master and a good emergency brake(rear drum).
The emergency brake is the best part of the braking system. :D

Supposedly those dual circuit masters will still work if you lose one end.......but come to think of it I've never seen that DID work without frantic pumping. Nice theory but they should not have tried to do that without a booster. The early master cylinder is so much simpler and less monkey motion.

How can disks be cheaper than drums? Now, if your talkin five lug ok maybe, those drums are rare so must be bought new, but the four lug drums/hubs are common. I have have two sets myself and didn't want them, just don't want to throw them out!

A wobbly bracket or cheap kit is likely to be squeakville also.

I have not adjusted my type-3 converted brakes in five years, probably could go another few yet, but hit the 14th click on the e-brake the other day so I think I will adjust them.........when i get around to it.
But anyway, I've heard complaints that the PADS on some of these disk sets only last a few years, which cannot be right.......cheap junk.......but what can you do? It's all they sell sometimes.

Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:50 pm

As a rule of thumb, 70% of your braking is up front and 30% is in the rear. Take it from there.

Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:38 pm

Ever witnessed "stoppies"? (Well - not with a bug, but my point is a general understanding of braking and weight shift.)

With really good brakes and great tires, 100 percent of the braking ends up on the front, simple to understand because the back tires are off the ground.

Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:43 pm

I understand weight distribution but the Type is heavily biased towards the rear. So it may be with our car the rears do a lot more than 30%. That is what I have read about why the Type 3 works well on the rear. Even with the shift or the front dip when the brakes are applied it may not be so severe with the Beetle?

Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:50 pm

The type 3 rear brakes were used either to (a) increase rear braking on a car after it had been upgraded to discs on the front, or (b) on a sand rail where individual steering brakes are often used...

And all of this was done before kits for rear discs with parking brakes became available and affordable.

Discs go on the front first, IMO -- always...

Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:45 pm

I've used type 3 rear drums and brakes on 2 different cars; a CalLooker with 135's and Ghia discs on the front and 185/70's on the back, and a Baja bug with drums/7.00-15's (a little bit bigger than stock) on the front and 29 or 30" all terrains on the back. On both cars upgrading to bigger/better brakes on the back restored the braking balance on the car. I don't think you'd want to upgrade the back brakes (to either type 3 or discs) on a stock car.

Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:17 am

When the car is cruising or at standstill, about 60% of the weight is over the back wheels. As soon as you start braking the weight is transferred to the front wheels, to the point where the tyres are being lifted from the road under heavy braking. This means the superior braking at the rear combined with less force between the tyre and road causes a tendancy to skid. This is great if you are into drifting, but gives you reduced control and stability for road, slalom or hillclimb. Rear braking is fine for a dragster, especially if combined with a 'chute, but it is the front brakes that need upgrading for the rest of us.

Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:08 am

When I sized calipers for my dual disc brakes I ran some calculations for weight transfer.

Overall vehicle weight 2,500 lbs 1134.0 kg
(Includes fuel, passengers, etc)
Wheelbase 95 inches
Center of Gravity 20 inches above ground
Weight on front axle 1,068 lbs 42.7%
Weight on rear axle 1,433 lbs 57.3%
Rate of deceleration 1.00 G (Panic stop)

Center of Gravity 40.35 inches ahead of rear axle
54.15 inches behind front axle

Dynamic front weight under 1g braking 1,597 lbs 63.9%
Dynamic rear weight under 1g braking 903 lbs 36.1%

So for a typical Bug, 64% of braking is done by the front brakes and 36% by the rear.

Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:53 am

OK. I got nothing. LOL! Great info guys. Thanks. I guess I need to bite the bullet and do the fronts first. Got a fast stroker and it seems to brake OK but when you owned an Audi TT and now Vette you long for more out of your toy. I see one here for like 399.00. Any good?

Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:00 pm

Arnolds64 wrote: OK. I got nothing. LOL! Great info guys. Thanks. I guess I need to bite the bullet and do the fronts first. Got a fast stroker and it seems to brake OK but when you owned an Audi TT and now Vette you long for more out of your toy. I see one here for like 399.00. Any good?

I really hate those sliding caliper brake kits that everyone seems to offer dirt cheap. I didn't know any better and bought a set when I first built my car. I've never ran Bug drum brakes, so I don't know if they were truly an improvement, but they sucked in every way. Pedal was super hard, brackets & sliders flexed under hard braking, and the pins rusted & froze even with cleaning & lubing for each race.

Consider getting a nice set of Ghia or even Wilwood calipers with any brake kit you decide upon.

Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:20 pm

SoCal Imports wide-five disc brake kit. I've been running it for 4 years and love it.

Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:27 pm

Disc brake kits are very affordable these days. A basic disc kit is more than enough for our VW's. Basic discs on my car stop it from 130+mph without issue. You can buy better looking ones if you want, but performance wise you don't need it.

Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:07 pm

hmm I wonder why some offly fast cars have 6 piston calipers on the rear and 4 piston calipers on the front. & why rear brakes are required for drag racing...why the front tires slide if the rears dont work.why the duel circut mc dosent work at all if you loose one end...why has florida closed due to weather....why micker is devorseing mini....she is effing goofy.....in more ways that one....hmm that might be why goofy is always smiling :shock: