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Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:54 pm

I took the old carpet out of my 73 std and noticed there's some surface rust on the floorpan. I don't think it is bad enough to need replaced, but I'm trying to decide what to do from here. I plan on putting new carpet in soon. What would be the best route to make sure the floor doesn't rust all the way through or get any worse? I think I will take a wire wheel to it to remove the surface rust that's already there. I've seen on here where some people swear by por15 and some hate it. Is there any other alternatives that will hold up over time and preserve my floorpan?? I try not to drive it in wet or crappy weather, but sometimes it happens. I want to prime and paint the floor then put carpet padding and carpet on top of it....right? Suggestions are appreciated!

Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:02 pm

If it is just surface rust, after you wire brush it, you can use a spray on rust converter. I use it with a good amount of success but my Vw is parked in the garage, we rarely get snow and very little salt on the road. If I still lived in Pa. I would use por-15

Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:25 pm

The thing about the Por-Type products is PREP! Clean it really well and it'll be fine. Check out Chassis Saver, I have bought it from local auto parts stores and I truly believe it's the exact same thing as POR. Another possibility is Zero rust the whole pan and coat the bottom in FluidFilm

Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:50 pm

A wire brush on a rotary tool (3/8 Ryobi drill)(safety glasses) is a very good and cheap method to remove rust. If you keep the brush a little wet with either spray oil or actually water it works better. Rustoleum 'Rust Stripper' (NOT naval jelly) works really good but if you don't remove it before it dries or don't get it out of the metal pores afterwards ,it actually accelerates the rusting process. I use mineral spirits to get it out of the metals pores after cleaning the surface with hot water and clean it up with a wire brush before painting. HomeDepot sells Rustoleoum primmer with 93% zinc which will actually slow the rusting process as opposed to sticky paint like Zero Rust. I'm a cerified user of ZeroRust and you are better off using the $2 spray paints that walmart sells. It dries hard and is sticky but you need a chemical process to stop rust. Paint does not create a barrier and moisture goes right through it. I like to cover, zinc primmer/chain link fence paint ; with epoxy paint. VHT makes exterior epoxy paint.You could check Autozone for that or use Appliance Paint if it will not see sunlight. :D

Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:56 pm

If you do you a converter, check the directions, some of them work best applied as several layers. Also, you get one type, that leaves a rubbery coating, and one that leaves a dry powdery finish... get the latter.

Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:59 pm

I use spray on bedliner on the inside and outside. cheap, and durable.

Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:43 am

Do we overdo this issue of rust on a floor pan? Are we just buying into the hype of these rust preventative products? Has anyone ever tried to just wire brush the rust off and then use just Rustoleum or undercoating and not all this expensive stuff? It took many years for that rust to reach that stage and I'm sure that rust prevention was minimal when the car was built.

Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:26 am

Keep the floors dry and they won't rust. They rust when water gets trapped between the floor pan and the carpet/mats.

Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:27 am

If you use a wire brush and its not too bad, don't use a real aggressive brush or you can actually eat through the metal some. I love the rustoeum rust convereter. Then rustoleum rusty metal primer, then their "professional" paint in rattle can or quart brush on.

Next I like using peal and seal instead of tarboard. Seals the metal from water from inside. Then business as usual after that.

Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:58 am

Joey wrote: Keep the floors dry and they won't rust. They rust when water gets trapped between the floor pan and the carpet/mats.

Joey gave the correct answer !

Find out how the water is getting in. Check the floor regularly and dry it out when it gets wet and you'll be fine. I used plain old rustoleum on my pans around 1985 after I patched some holes in them, and I never had another problem with rust. But, I always dried the car out after it got wet.

Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:34 am

andk5591 wrote: If you use a wire brush and its not too bad, don't use a real aggressive brush or you can actually eat through the metal some. I love the rustoeum rust convereter. Then rustoleum rusty metal primer, then their "professional" paint in rattle can or quart brush on.

Next I like using peal and seal instead of tarboard. Seals the metal from water from inside. Then business as usual after that.

Wouldn't undercoating do the same thing as "peal and seal"?

As far as a sound deadener, does the "peal and seal" work better than the foam/felt type material the parts suppliers sell? Or do you put the foam/felt like material over the "peal and seal"?

Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:28 am

Wouldnt want to use undercoating on the inside (the usual spray on rubberized stuff) What I do is put a couple layers of peal and seal and then padding and then carpet. Works pretty well.

FYI if doing peel and seal, get the right stuff. Hoem Depot has it and I think Lowes does again.

Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:43 pm

Dwayne1m wrote: Do we overdo this issue of rust on a floor pan? Are we just buying into the hype of these rust preventative products? Has anyone ever tried to just wire brush the rust off and then use just Rustoleum or undercoating and not all this expensive stuff? It took many years for that rust to reach that stage and I'm sure that rust prevention was minimal when the car was built.

That is why I suggested a rust converter, however the stuff they put in road salt these days just eats metal. I have lived in PA for 30 years. When I left cars did not last but 5 years because of the road salt. It makes me angry to even think about buying a 20, 30 or 40 thousand dollar car and to have it rust away. You get in the car with snow and salt on your boots then it melts that's why I would use Por-15

Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:26 pm

Bugman114 - do you get it down to clean bare metal first? Then primer then bedliner? Any particular brand/type of bedliner?

Thanks

Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:01 pm

I tested a bunch of differnt primmers including Primmer-sealer,Metal Etching ,Converter and unless it has zinc in it ,it did not do any better than just paint on a clean metal panel subjected to winter driving. The drier the car stays the longer it will take to re-rust but it WILL re-rust unless you cover it with a chemical or ionic type of bond like zinc. Have you ever seen a expensive british roadster like a MG/TD on its second or third restoration? I doubt they drive it on salted roads but I'll bet that the original galvinization is gone. I have a rust bucket jeep on its third floor to back these claims. :lol:

Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:20 am

pwmcguire wrote: Dwayne1m wrote: Do we overdo this issue of rust on a floor pan? Are we just buying into the hype of these rust preventative products? Has anyone ever tried to just wire brush the rust off and then use just Rustoleum or undercoating and not all this expensive stuff? It took many years for that rust to reach that stage and I'm sure that rust prevention was minimal when the car was built.

That is why I suggested a rust converter, however the stuff they put in road salt these days just eats metal. I have lived in PA for 30 years. When I left cars did not last but 5 years because of the road salt. It makes me angry to even think about buying a 20, 30 or 40 thousand dollar car and to have it rust away. You get in the car with snow and salt on your boots then it melts that's why I would use Por-15

My question was primarily about inside pan prep and rust prevention. I can understand going the whole way on the outside and taking every precaution possible if you drive in nasty conditions, but the inside isn't exposed to the weather or moisture unless the carpet/padding gets wet. My beetle won't see road salt and nasty weather so I feel for me just undercoating the outside will be sufficient. As for the inside I'm just going to primer and paint with Rustoleum and then try the "Peel and Seal" as was suggested, then padding and carpet.

Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:07 am

My take on rust inside is this. The original tarboard did not seal the floor because of how rigid it was. So around the perimter, you could get water in and it would tend to lay in the dips in the floor. Every pan I worked on that had minor rust, had it in these grooves and anyplace where the tarboard was not making contact. Now, over time, if unchecked, you will get rust on the entire floor.

Using the Peel and Seal after treating existing rust, seals the metal from the outside world. I use a wooden wall paper roller to work it into the grooves. but have also use a 3/4" wooden dowel rod.

With 2 layers, it also does a real good job reducing noise. I cover the entire floor, front kick panels, rear seat and luggage tray area including the firewall (interior side only). I also put a layer on the inside of the door skins and rear body behind the interior panels. Another plus is that I use it under the battery as well. The assumption is that it will help protect the floor. But I have not had any of my cars long enough to know for sure and I use Optima and Odyssey batteries that arent supposed to outgas as bad.

Keep in mind that this product is designed to seal metal flashing on roofs. Its sticky as hell and contrary to some comments that I have seen a couple years ago from people that obviously never used it, it doesnt smell.

This system works for me.

Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:47 am

Would I need to use primer before the peal and seal? And what exactly is peal and seal? Some have mentioned you can get it at Home Depot

Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:01 am

moto406 wrote: Would I need to use primer before the peal and seal? And what exactly is peal and seal? Some have mentioned you can get it at Home Depot

Prime and paint. Personally I wouldn't stick a bunch of stuff onto the floor that can trap water under it, but that's just me. Yes, the original tar board had gaps that let water under it, but those gaps also let the floor dry out if you lift up the mat every now and then and let the moisture out.

Your car lasted 40 years without that peel and seal stuff. It should do another 40 with good prep, primer and paint ... and if you find out how the floor is getting wet and fix that.

The water is usually coming in from the dried out window seals.

Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:34 am

yOU COULD ALWAYS CUT THE PEEL AND SEAL AND JUST STICK IT ON THE HIGH AREAS.... sorry, capslock error.