TheSamba.com :: View topic - Metal Fuel rails.. GoWesty? VanCafe? Others?

Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:33 am

Oh, didn't realize those were for VanCafe. Too bad the plugs were fighting you. It would be a nice feature to be able to clean them out. Those are a bargain. Nice welds.

Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:56 pm

The Machinist wrote:

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! And DOUBLE THANK YOU!!!!

These are my dream fuel rails. Order incoming to VC regardless of any increase in price. I'd now call those fail safe.

Bravo! Standing ovation at my end -- and I believe a game changer for that possible fire-starting item.

I can hardly wait to caress a pair.

It's really true: "All good things come to those who wait."

Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:44 pm

VdubVanner wrote: THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! And DOUBLE THANK YOU!!!!

These are my dream fuel rails. Order incoming to VC regardless of any increase in price. I'd now call those fail safe.

Bravo! Standing ovation at my end -- and I believe a game changer for that possible fire-starting item.

I can hardly wait to caress a pair.

It's really true: "All good things come to those who wait."

I hope I'm not posting these too early. I believe they may still have a few with the NPT plugs in stock. I just shipped some of the welded ones last week. If you order now, you should probably make sure to specifically request the welded ones.

Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:19 pm

Thanks! I'm actually going through Barry at Werke-1 in B.C. since he owes me credit on a malfunctioning GoWesty fridge fan and just sent him a link to this page so he knows what I want. I can wait until I get those welded beauties.

Keep up the innovating and great work.

Cheers!

Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:49 pm

I recently stumbled across this thread.

The home made aspect appealed to me.
Yes, the fittings are threaded, so are GoWesty's .
I used theirs, it never leaked.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691470

In it Waldo made an injection fuel rail using off the shelf parts.

A five port aluminum air distribution manifold and brass barbed fittings.

Waldo's photo.......

Waldo apparently used hardline rather than rubber 5/16” fuel injection hose.

I found the manifold on Amazon for $4 each. I opted for the 1/4” NPT option....

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08536DZ1D/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I had no desire to use hard line so opted for 5/16” barbed fittings.

I didn't see the need to use a 45° fitting all over as he did either.

I ordered my fittings from McMaster-Carr.

Here is my set up loosely assembled. I put a VW manifold next to it so one can see how similar the fitting spacing is.

Dave

Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:20 pm

Yep, that's going to work. You also have a convenient place to tap into for a fuel pressure gauge.

There are manifolds with any number of ports though. You could have gotten a 4 in a row manifold. https://www.amazon.com/Interstate-Pneumatics-FPM44...ANJ409NP2H That said, having the inlet/outlet offset from the injectors could make access just slightly easier so that's certainly something worth considering.

Are you going to use oetiker clamps?

Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:36 pm

The Machinist wrote:

That's all we need right there. Like the originals, only four potential fittings to leak

Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:24 pm

My aluminum fuel rails from Van Cafe started leaking a considerable amount of gas at the threaded plug just recently. They are two years old. I tightened up the plug and the leak stopped, but now I'm watching them closely. Would be nice to have a set of those welded rails so no worries.

Satchmo

Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:38 pm

That's why I waited. Welded ends are the ultimate solution to a recurring problem which may cause an engine fire. Skip the threaded handmade or GoWesty versions and get the foolproof BEST. It makes absolutely no sense to penny pinch on a critical component like a fuel rail. What's the old saying? "Penny wise, pound foolish"! Buy a set and be done with it.

https://www.vancafe.com/025133317BILLET-p/025133317billet.htm[/i]

Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:19 am

satchmo wrote: My aluminum fuel rails from Van Cafe started leaking a considerable amount of gas at the threaded plug just recently. They are two years old. I tightened up the plug and the leak stopped, but now I'm watching them closely. Would be nice to have a set of those welded rails so no worries.

Satchmo

That is sketchy! I don't know why they would start to leak after two years. We were so careful with them to make sure they were good before they shipped out. I'm so glad we moved to the welded plugs.

Wed Aug 04, 2021 9:38 am

I think I pointed out a page or three back that the sealant was likely going to be the weak link in the chain due to its relatively poor "gasoline" solvent rating. The welded ends take care of that issue.

Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:35 pm

Well.......

I've done the fuel rail thing,
Without exception, I've tossed the OEM plastic garbage.

My 86 is now in Washington State running GoWesty's fuel rails with zero issues.

My 90 is running a home made set using air compressor fittings, threaded plugs and threaded nipples.
It is seeping fuel at the threaded junctions.

So I ordered up a set of what I now consider the Gold standard of fuel rails....... VanCafe.

Do yourself a favor, just order VanCafe's from the get go.

Dave

Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:50 pm

Out of curiosity, what are the clips for?

Tim '87 westy

Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:56 pm

For Holding the heater box together after fixing the flap seals and/or replacing the heater core and resistor.

Many glue or silicone, but that is simply too permanent.

Dave

Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:58 pm

djkeev wrote: Well.......

I've done the fuel rail thing,
Without exception, I've tossed the OEM plastic garbage.

My 86 is now in Washington State running GoWesty's fuel rails with zero issues.

My 90 is running a home made set using air compressor fittings, threaded plugs and threaded nipples.
It is seeping fuel at the threaded junctions.

So I ordered up a set of what I now consider the Gold standard of fuel rails....... VanCafe.

Do yourself a favor, just order VanCafe's from the get go.

Dave

Three cheers for Dave: Hip, Hip, Hooray! Hip, Hip, Hooray! Hip, Hip, Hooray!

Good decision. Once you've had a close look at the Van Cafe versions, you'll never look at anything else. You also have to realize that those rails are made by a specialty shop that might decide not to make them any more. What if that gifted Machinist gets ill? Get 'em now and be worry free. They truly are perfection.

Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:40 pm

When I bought the Van last fall. We changed out all the fuel lines. I saw this thread. Made sense to buy VC rails with less moving parts. Nice chunk of metal. Thanks Machinist.

WestyBob wrote: Before I tapped into this thread but very recently I chose the VanCafe ones because I did have some concern about the Gowesty ones potentially leaking in time. More money for sure but for me personally any threat at all of leakage ... well ... that's a real bad location for a leak. So, I traded more money for hopefully peace 'o mind.

RIP Bob. Your spare parts are serving me well. Your Vanagon legacy continues. Thank you.

Mon Mar 18, 2024 2:28 pm

Does anybody know what the actual function of the fuel rails is? My best guess is that it is sort of a buffer chamber to smooth out the pulsing of the fuel injection system. With two inlets and two outlets, all of them connected to the same chamber, the fuel just flows in and back out. I was careful to match the factory dimensions as closely as possible, assuming that the volume of the chamber is important. Otherwise it seems like you could just do away with the fuel rails altogether.

There is another fuel rail that is machined with a much smaller bore connecting the inlets and outlets. Is that even providing the function that these were made for? I wonder if it has any effect on how the engine runs.

Mon Mar 18, 2024 2:35 pm

The Machinist wrote: Does anybody know what the actual function of the fuel rails is? My best guess is that it is sort of a buffer chamber to smooth out the pulsing of the fuel injection system. With two inlets and two outlets, all of them connected to the same chamber, the fuel just flows in and back out. I was careful to match the factory dimensions as closely as possible, assuming that the volume of the chamber is important. Otherwise it seems like you could just do away with the fuel rails altogether.

There is another fuel rail that is machined with a much smaller bore connecting the inlets and outlets. Is that even providing the function that these were made for? I wonder if it has any effect on how the engine runs.

My guess is considering the volume and pressure in the lines that you could just use some 5/16" Tees and call it good.
Lots of clamps but......
some of the older Porsche fuel rails were just welded pipe into the double Tee configuration. They work just fine if you can find them.

Mon Mar 18, 2024 3:46 pm

The Machinist wrote: Does anybody know what the actual function of the fuel rails is? My best guess is that it is sort of a buffer chamber to smooth out the pulsing of the fuel injection system.

On the Golf side of Digifant, VW also referred to the (plastic) fuel rail as a fuel distributor, which eliminates 4 injector hoses, unlike K-Jetronic that has no fewer than 6 individual fuel lines running across the engine. The Digifant fuel pressure regulator in the Golfs is mounted to the rail, and the rail has a return line to the tank. The rail in those cars is kind of a fuel sump for the injectors to draw from, which could, I suppose, be thought of as a buffer chamber as well. FWIW, Subaru uses the same basic design, with aftermarket alternatives: https://www.fiveomotorsport.com/subaru-top-feed-conversion-kit-radium-engineering/ .

Mon Mar 18, 2024 5:48 pm

The Machinist wrote: Does anybody know what the actual function of the fuel rails is? My best guess is that it is sort of a buffer chamber to smooth out the pulsing of the fuel injection system. With two inlets and two outlets, all of them connected to the same chamber, the fuel just flows in and back out. I was careful to match the factory dimensions as closely as possible, assuming that the volume of the chamber is important. Otherwise it seems like you could just do away with the fuel rails altogether.

There is another fuel rail that is machined with a much smaller bore connecting the inlets and outlets. Is that even providing the function that these were made for? I wonder if it has any effect on how the engine runs.

I can answer in a way. I made fuel rails much like yours but slimmer. Just a 5/16” diameter inner bore. The central bore has a plug pressed in and welded. Been using them for 6 months and I haven’t noticed any difference in van performance.

I made them as slim as I could to reduce weight. And just to be different than the plain old square section.

I’m skeptical of any fluid buffer notions. I’m willing to be corrected, but I just don’t see it in the van set up.

Powder coated some, anodized some.

Cheers

Alistair