TheSamba.com :: View topic - Front in dash AC evaporator as a rear system "Booster"

Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:57 am

As I've documented, i rebuilt my primary "factory" Rear mounted AC system in my Westy "Weekender".

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=622520&highlight=

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=583818&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

After an early stumble (bad new Expansion Valve) the system performs admirably.

Currently 42* exiting the vent and that can be improved to be in the 30's.

Having the rear based system really cools off the Van on hot days very well.
The problem is getting adequate cool air up to us in the front seats.

I purchased a cheap clip on fan that blows air up front between the Driver and Passenger, it did just OK.

There are warm but cooler days that my wife did complain about being COLD!!! And put on a sweater 8) I done good!

But......

Between the sun beating in, which can be lessened with window tint and then add the Hot Foot syndrone around the entire front center "hump" (no, it's not "that"...... there is Zero uncontrolled hot water flow into the heater core and also Zero air leakage past the flaps because of my Heater box modification and fresh air shut off control)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=605822&highlight=

The front hump gets terrible hot, I mean so hot that you don't want to touch the side of the Auto Shift Lever box!

I had an early Triumph Spitfire Years ago that had zero fresh air to the feet and you literally roasted because the foot wells hugged the engine, it was very similar to this and we did NOT enjoy that Triumph in the Summer at all!

I will do tencents insulation in this area to lessen the heat transfer.....

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=237271&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

But we've come to realize that we LIKE ice cold air blowing on us as we drive as well as we like to be sitting in a cool room.

We don't need a lot of cold, i dont want to get into a multi 1000's of $$'s Small Car modification.
I just want some cold air blowing on me.

Howesight made a system based in the dash which he has found to be effective. I don't desire to go through that much work.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=535444&highlight=diy+front+air+conditioning

This thread has ended up to be a tad useless due to dead links and vanishing photos......

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2...p;start=60

What to do?
I had borrowed my FLAPS AC Evaporator core catalog Friday looking for small Evaporators that I can make use of, most aren't small at all! They also have long strange piping at all angles!

I was at the All Air Cooled Gathering in Flanders NJ this morning and saw my dream unit sitting in a pile of old VW crap for sale........
A Small vintage under Dash R12 expansion valve controlled unit......

$20 cash...... MINE!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

The three speed blower works......
I plan to nestle it in above the Glove Box by the Wiper Motor and fan force feed it into my Cabin Air Recirculation port I created months ago.

Additionally while this small evaporator PUSHES cold air into the Vanagon "stock" heater box .......... the stock VW heater Fan will also be sucking it in because I CAN SHUT OFF THE FRESH AIR RAM FEED AND RECIRCULATE MY CABIN AIR!!!! :wink:

I figure that I already upsized my Condenser with the Vintage Air cross flow unit so I've got system capacity.
I know that the Behr two Evaporator system uses a compressor no bigger than what my new SANDEN 508 unit is.

A little creative mounting, two Tee's in my new Refrigerant Lines (one after the Rec/Drier and one at the Compressor Suction port) and I should have AC pouring forth from my existing Dash Vents, defroster vents and foot vents with little effort.

I will use my abandoned rear heater fan switch to control the three working blower speeds on my "new" front AC unit.

I wont worry about a thermostat in the coil for the rear unit will still control the clutch engagement. ......... I hope!

The cold passing through the heater core will also allow me to moderate the cold air with a dash of hot water AND will also provide dehumidified air to a misty windshield! :lol: 8)

OK Oh Wise Ones ....... Why can't I do this?

Dave

Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:51 pm

Whynchou just buy barely used the front unit I just listed for $200 and not worry about that rusty thing?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1838420

Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:16 pm

Well..... Because mine will work and it was only $20??
That leave a lot of cash left over for hoses and RedTek.....

Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:27 pm

Go for it...it'll be cool! :lol: :lol: :wink:

Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:58 pm

I really like the concept. I'd still like to work on ideas that vent hot greenhouse heat buildup when the vehicle is sitting, so that the AC doesn't have to work so hard to drop interior temps in the dead of summer. Tinted windows and some kind of solar heat evacuations device would be nice. Dual evaporators seem like a no brainer for a large sealed box like the T3

Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:54 am

dixoncj wrote: Whynchou just buy barely used the front unit I just listed for $200 and not worry about that rusty thing?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1838420
Touché. I'd treat it with Krud kutter rust treatment first. Stuffs amazing.

Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:16 am

dixoncj wrote: dixoncj wrote: Whynchou just buy barely used the front unit I just listed for $200 and not worry about that rusty thing?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1838420
Touché. I'd treat it with Krud kutter rust treatment first. Stuffs amazing.

Yes, I plan on a complete disassembly process, wire brush, clean, prime and paint.
Flush out the Evaporator core and redirect the cold air path to the left to enter my recirculation port I made on the factory heater box.
I Will probably bend up some sheet metal vanes to direct the air smoothly, not unlike what VW put into the fresh air ram box that directs and delivers air through the doors.

His Evaporator box would be of great interest to me if I hadn't previously stumbled upon this old Gem.

Dave

Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:17 am

Late model vans come with insulation behind the rad fan, in the footwell area.
Same stuff was used on the Syncro gas tank.

Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:36 am

My westy, 88, came without ac. I've searched a bit on adding ac. Was given a add on under dash style from a Jeep pu, a test fit will mmean i lose glove box (except front as a cover), also a slight mod of center cover bottom in front of shifter. 4 the rear will be a rear ac unit from a Mazda suv, gonna stop at dealer to see if i can get a wiring print-out 4 rear, essier but may have to traace it out? This & figuring out hoses all I need (??) For this winter job.

Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:28 am

Mr. Taskmaster;

I think that you got a good deal on the rusted up bucket of garbage.

However, I sure don't want to burst your bubble, but here's my thoughts on this "hack your Van up some more" program.

If you channeled your energy into getting your rear AC set up & functioning properly, which is isn't yet--and getting all of the back windows black limo tinted, you'd be money & time ahead of yourself.
Get program A all done first, then move on to program B.

That AC should be cranking out at least 36--38 degrees which would totally vacate the need for that Warsaw Dave's update.

I get plenty of cold air up front real easy at Gobi Desert ambient temps--but the ac is working properly.

But two units I guess blowing at 40 some degrees would be good , if you want to be running at half mast.

Perfect.

Quit dreaming of stuff to do--until you get what you got working right first--then make that decision of hacking up the dash some more to get more air up front--when you won't require it.

Think about that.

Next and way up on top of the list;
Then I would think that you'd want to build some kind of roof rack to get rid of the Elgin street sweeper look--This one is real important-- for your AC performance & the safety for anyone that might be , or could be in front of you. :roll:

Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:39 pm

Ha!

Don't hold back Terry......
How do you really feel about some things I've done? :wink: :lol:

No matter how Cold the rear AC is......... It will NEVER EVER blow out of the dash vents at my wifes and my frontal side.

Some choices are made to satisfy one's personal preferences.

The front rack..... Honestly, after 7000 miles...... I really like it and find it amazingly convenient for me.
Nothing to hoist up to the roof, no engine or rear hatch access issues and something to stand on when I clean my windshield!
Even the overall length of the Van with the rack fits easily in any parking space!

I hadn't wanted to "waste" the RedTek but good point about finishing the charge. That way I know what the baseline pressures and temperatures were before I modify the system..... Point taken! Thanks!

BTW...... No hacking the dash, this thing is almost a plug and play installation into my cabin Air recirculation intake on the Right Side of the heater box.

Dave

Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:40 pm

So you are going to blow this setup into the heater intake?

Might be a bit off the wall but interesting idea.
The AC is going to blow outa the front vents--right?

Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:37 pm

Well, I'm watching paint dry (literally) on my sliding door track.

I wonder if this old Beetle aftermarket AC Evaporator will actually fit in that space above the glove box?

Only one way to find out!

Dug it out and pulled off the air plenum and blower fan.....
NOT spacious but it will definitely fit up there.

Sadly I will need to pull the dash to make it work.

Next week I'll order up some AC hose and fittings then We will see where this road leads.....

Dave

Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:39 pm

My Beetle flea market under dash antique AC evaporator unit is 16 1/4" wide. My available space is 16 3/16" wide!

I'll make mine work utilizing some "creativity"...... but had I seen this unit beforehand...... it would slip right in!

This Vintage Air unit is very near the exact evaporator unit I Have only it is just 15 1/2" wide..... $300....

This unit could be made to work unseen even without my heater box modification utilizing some non factory AC vents in the dash.

There's a whole lot of thinking that goes into a mod like this before one starts doing!

http://www.vintageair.com/2015%20Catalog/2015%20VintageAir%20Catalog%2050.pdf

Dave

Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:04 pm

Oh My!

Step away from the computer David!

Much smaller!

16" wide
10" deep
5" high
$239

I think that I might be ordering an AC Evaporator unit! :shock:
It will fit so much nicer in that void behind and above the glove box.

I will of course be cannibilizing this unit removing the controls and vents to plumb it into my heater box cabin air recirculation vent.

The blower fan will be controlled by my rear heater fan control which is no longer used because I removed the rear assembly.
I can get a temperature control unit with a four foot or 6 foot sensor tube,mthat way Imcan place the control right there next to the rear heater fan switch.

Dave

Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:22 pm

I have the VA Mark IV classic and it works well in the old rides.

Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:38 pm

newfisher wrote: I have the VA Mark IV classic and it works well in the old rides.

My first AC memory was helping Dad add AC to a new 1963 Rambler American station wagon. An under dash unit.
Luxury!!

Dave

Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:43 pm

I'm so weak..... I just ordered the Nostalgic air unit! 8)

I also got a 12v AC control valve for the second evaporator that I'm adding.

http://nostalgicac.com/12v-freon-shut-off-valve.html

All is not lost though..... My Ghia convertible will love that vintage Evaporator!

Dave

Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:26 pm

You are assuming that the compressor is capable of supplying both evaporator cabinets OK-- right?

In the Caddy Limos, the Frigidaire compressors had bigger CFM / BTU ratings David.

I hope you just didn't blow your load on a gizmo that will have too large of a demand for that new compressor you just bolted on.

I know--you'll find out.

Get a big glass to be crying into, after the fact.

Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:33 pm

No problems, the Behr dual Evaporator unit works on a single compressor that is actually a tad smaller than mine.

Dave