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Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:05 pm

Hello,
Has any one had problems with the Pertronix III ignition modules? I had purchased one from a VW parts dealer in Southern California and installed it in a SVDA 034 distributor. It was dead on arrival. Called the dealer up and they said I would have to send it to Pertronix which I did. Took over three weeks to get it back as they honored the warranty but had to build another one. The report that Pertronix included in the warranty claim said that a power transistor failed.

Installed the new unit in a new Kuhlteck SVDA distributor. This one fired up but did not seem to have good advance which I believe is the problem with the Kuhltek distributor not the Pertronix module. Even with points the Kuhltek was a dog. Put back in my old Bosch SVDA with points and car ran fine.

In the interim I was planning on doing some upgrades to the engine which is a 1600 dual port. Installed dual Kadrons, Alternator and Tri-Mill Bobtail exhaust. Got Kads running nicely with exhaust. Did not want to add too many variables when upgrading.

Buggy really idles well and runs strong. Decided to put Pertronix III in Bosch 034 SVDA. Was difficult to start and once warmed up seemed to miss intermittently on # 1 cylinder as evidenced by timing light. Pulled wire for #1 out of distributor and spark jumped the gap and engine ran better but plugging wire back in distributor tower made engine run rough again.

A bit frustrating and parked it for now. Will check everything out on Wednesday. Read that it is recommended not to use solid core wires as they can cause interference with electronics which I assume to be electronics on car systems such as radios/computers not the module. The wires are stock VW and plugs are NGK.

I realize many people are not fans of electronic ignition systems. I agree I enjoy the simplicity of points. Installed a MSD ignition an a Mopar 440 engine and it really made a difference with the idle quality and acceleration.
I was hoping that the Pertronix would do the same for buggy. Yes I know some will say forget the Pertronix but I am a bit stubborn and want to rule out anything else before I dump the Pertronix.

Any thoughts?

Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:17 pm

I'm not against transistor ignition AT ALL, but I am against the cheezeball aftermarket stuff, because that stuff is usually not very well developed.

The most reliable systems usually use remote mounted ignition modules.
I found a late model volvos you can get the coil and module for 100$.....now.....just gotta figure out how to hook it up!

Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:20 pm

I would rule out ANY electronic modules INSIDE the HOT distributor that are switching the ignition coil.

Go with a remote ignition system. For me it is Mallory SVDA distributor with a reluctor wheel and magnetic pickup and an external electronic ignition system. Very consistent and reliable.

New points triggering an external ignition system are also quite reliable. When the points are only handling a few milliamps of current to trigger an external electronic ignition system they last for a very long time.

Scott Novak

Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:18 am

Dont think Pertronix is exactly a cheese ball operation... Look at their overall auto industry profile...

Dale

Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:25 am

Dale M. wrote: Dont think Pertronix is exactly a cheese ball operation... Look at their overall auto industry profile...

Dale

I would, installing a transistor module inside the distributor is cheese ball from an engineering standpoint.

Dan

Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:12 am

:wink: A chain is only as good as it's weakest link......seems like a common thing with all of the latest recalls etc.

When it works, then it works......how long another matter as I found out with my Elect ign. Hated to be broken down at a intersection....installed my 009 and drove on home. Now have a Porsche 912 dist that works flawless.

Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:18 am

Dan Ruddock wrote: I would, installing a transistor module inside the distributor is cheese ball from an engineering standpoint.

I think so too. HOWEVER, the auto industry does it all the time. But they also have failures, and sometimes huge numbers of failures.

What the auto industry does is not always best for the consumer.

Installing a trigger module that doesn't generate a significant amount of heat isn't too bad in terms of reliability.

But I'd still rather use a reluctor wheel and magnetic pickup. True that the pickup coils can fail. But that's usually a manufacturing defect or poor design. Also, some of the magnets in the pickups are susceptible to damage from used motor oil. But it's a poor distributor design that allows oil to get that far up inside a distributor.

Cheeseball is using the distributor as a power ground. ALWAYS a bad idea.

Scott Novak

Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:29 pm

CRANK FIRE or is there a problem with that too....

I have had 3 Comp-U-Fire modules (now a Pertronix product) and the have been flawless and on two of my engines the have been known to hit 7,000 rpm and go fine, oldest module I have is now 13 years old and doing fine....

Only problem I ever had was mounting screw for module was loose on race engine and had a odd hard to define miss at high RPM (showed more on tach) and once screw was tight again all was good....

Dale

Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:41 pm

Compufire is my favorite of the drop-in modules, best accuracy....but still no more raw power than points.

The petronix 2 and 3 are a lot more power but I expect that won't make them any more reliable......I didn't get a year out of my petronix2 and it had a lot of timing scatter.

Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:49 pm

My HEI has been in the car for years, sat for another 20 yrs and worked better with the old module than the new MSD module(s) did. And IF it ever fails, I should be able to fine a replacement module at almost any parts house. And it has the spark power to jump a .050" gap to boot.

Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:11 pm

While I generally like Mallory distributors I dislike the Unilte module because it has no onboard voltage spike protection to speak of. The optional so called active power filter that is supposed to protect it is designed incorrectly and the Unilite module will fail before the active power filter begins to limit the voltage to the Unilite module. It's a downright embarrassing design mistake.

Also, the Unilite module doesn't have enough radiating area to keep itself cool enough and it is dependent upon thermally conductive grease to transfer the heat out of it. The silicone based grease they supply dries out in time and the module can then overheat and die.

The Mallory MBI (Magnetic Breakerless Ignition) module DOES have enough surface radiating area that it does not require thermally conductive grease. Overall it's more robust than the Unilite module.

Neither of these modules use the distributor as a power return connection. They both have separate Plus and Minus power wires.

I strip the electronics off of the MBI module and connect the magnetic pickup directly to an outboard ignition system.

While some of you may have been lucky and not had failures of Pertronix and Compufire modules, other people haven't been so lucky.

Scott Novak

Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:09 am

I'm one of the lucky ones. I have run 1 on 2 motors now for 12 years, on a 2276, sees 7000 :shock: from time to time, flawless. the other is on my 1835 for 3 years now, sees 6000 from time to time, flawless. Do not ever hook the black wire to the hot side of the coil, instant failure :evil:

Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:13 am

Greezy Joe wrote: I'm one of the lucky ones. I have run 1 on 2 motors now for 12 years, on a 2276, sees 7000 :shock: from time to time, flawless. the other is on my 1835 for 3 years now, sees 6000 from time to time, flawless. Do not ever hook the black wire to the hot side of the coil, instant failure :evil:
have you ever checked the timing on all 4 cylinders?

Try it and let us know. I've see up to 4* variance from cylinder to cylinder.

Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:52 pm

Tested diferent distributor setups in buggy today. First test was with DVDA distributor with points. Started car and warmed it up idle was stable.

Reinstalled SVDA with the suspect Pertronix III. Buggy started then idle was irregular and rough even on warmed up engine.

Removed SVDA and swapped out Pertronix III and replaced with Bosch points and condenser.Wanted to rule out mechanical problems with distributor. Installed distributor and buggy fired right up with very stable idle. Took for a test drive and buggy ran great.

I am done with beta testing for Pertronix. Will stick with points for now.
So for a quick recap the first Pertronix III was dead on arrival. Called Pertronixs tech support and was on hold for at least 20 minutes. They asked all the obvious questions which they agreed it was possibly bad. They gave me a RMA# to return module. Took them 3 weeks to send out a replacement because they had to build it. The replacement has a very erratic idle and poor acceleration. SVDA with points is working fine.

Maybe those of you which have had good luck with Pertronix may have been using the previous I or II models. I picked the III due to the fact it had multiple spark discharge. Maybe there is something that I overlooked but it runs fine with 2 different point distributors.

Thanks for all your comments. I have videos of the three different tests but Samba doesn't directly do videos.

Thanks again

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:25 pm

I have the p-III with the low ohm coil they recommend. So far so good for 3000 miles. I carry a spare dist. w/points just in case. Compufire does seem to have a better rep. though.

Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:50 pm

What kind of plug wires are you running? I think the II and III models require resistance wires to avoid e-m feedback affecting the operation of the unit. Your description of pulling a wire off a plug sounds like e-m interference to me (but I'm no e-m expert).

Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:18 pm

Dr OnHolliday wrote: What kind of plug wires are you running? I think the II and III models require resistance wires to avoid e-m feedback affecting the operation of the unit. Your description of pulling a wire off a plug sounds like e-m interference to me (but I'm no e-m expert).

Using a high resistance wire to combat EMI is backassward at best. It doesn't so much eliminate the radiated EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference) as it limits the spark current so that the EMI is at a lower level.

Using a low loss spiral wound inductive magnetic suppression ignition wire will nearly eliminate the EMI WITHOUT significant spark power losses.

However, there is also conducted EMI interference within the DC power wires in your vehicle. In some cases it may be beneficial to add a huge ferrite bead around the module wire that connects to the negative terminal of the ignition coil.

Interesting that Pertonix's latest creation is a muti-sparking ignition system. I think Jacobs was doing that 20 years ago.

Scott Novak

Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:09 pm

This could simply be that the spark is actually jumping the wrong gap when you are getting a better spark off the electronic points replacement.

Suspect the number 1 lead might be faulty.

But be careful with pulling leads on the electronic units - I have a new Bosch blue coil and Taylor Spiro Pro leads. When I pull the plug lead, the voltage off load is enough to jump from the nose of the coil down to the distributor connection of the coil. From there the HT voltage will go back to the electronic unit in the distributor. Although the electronics are protected against this, there may be a gentle or not so gentle degradation caused by the repeated high voltage.

If it were a condenser and points, the condenser would be repeatedly puncturing with the flashover and self-healing as designed. But eventually a condenser run that way runs out of plate area or it shorts.

Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:55 pm

Hello,
I have been on Holiday. Thanks for all your replies. I may try some different wires but for now I am happy with the points. The whole purpose of running the Pertronix was reliability and minimum maintenance. I have spent way too much time on beta testing for Pertronix. I may have felt different if I did not have problems with the first module. I don't get a good feeling about the reliability. It was the first time I had to push start the buggy as it took way too many cranks to get it running. Points fired right up.