TheSamba.com :: View topic - How to use Rust Converters on parts and seams

Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:17 am

RE = rust encapsulation

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7896459#7896459

Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:37 am

This future thread will be for the final protective coating.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7896474#7896474

RP = rust proofing
UC = underbody coating sealing
CW = cavity waxing

Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:27 am

Dylan,

One of my past forte's for decades has been dealing with rust but greatly appreciate your report and updates to new and different techniques. A learning experience.

Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:38 am

WestyBob wrote: Dylan,

One of my past forte's for decades has been dealing with rust but greatly appreciate your report and updates to new and different techniques. A learning experience.

Thank you and you are welcome.
These reports are to be viewed as experimental.

Here in these forums I find many are looking to DIY methods and lower cost metods/products.

I think we both know from our experiences, that you get what you pay for, but still, many do not have the funding to use the much higher priced industrial products, let alone the equipment to properly/safely deliver it.

I am glad you are enjoying my tests.

Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:31 pm

insyncro wrote: 0cean wrote: So, I'm a little confused by this thread. I thought for the longest time samba people agreed that POR15 was the end all for rust and a good base for questionable areas directly on metal or on factory painted sections. Dident a couple of Guys even used it on the whole chassis. Now some are saying it has problems? Please explain.

Hi, and again, POR15 is a rust encapsulating paint.

RCs, convert rust, than can be top coated.

I will gladly start an encapsulation thread because the two processes are different.

I politely ask that questions about encapsulation are not posted here.

Conversion, sure.

I hope this helps.

I see what your saying, yet what about areas that don't have rust or have factory paint. How does the POR15 react and adhere to the areas? Does it flake off or just stay on without problems? I'm asking because I'm currently working on the wheel wells of my project and have some POR15 on the rusted areas and overlapping to the factory painted areas. Do you think this will be a problem? All of it will have a top costing of some sort, Primer, undercoating, or 3M Rubberized undercoating. Something will be on top.

Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:18 pm

This thread is not about POR15.
If you have questions about this particular product please contact POR directly.
The directions are pretty simple to understand.
They have a RC product, but as I have mentioned earlier in the thread, I do not use it.

Consulting an auto body specialist is advised and by all means feel free to purchase products and do test sprays, applications and layering of products from different manufacturers to see how they work together.

Reading MSDS spec sheets will shed so light on what ingredients are in each product.
Some do not mix well and will affect what is below and above it.

Thanks.

Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:13 pm

Rust Converter is also called Rust Reducer, both are good names as these chemicals work by reversing the oxidation reaction of iron into rust. The reverse of an oxidation reaction is called reduction. You will also see references to redox rxns, as like many rxns, these 2 are coupled, and can be driven either way by various conditions.

There are several different chemicals that are used in various combinations by different manufacturers. I have no idea which ones are best (but don't care since I live on the west coast, and not ON the coast either).

Here is a wiki on this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_converter

Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:00 pm

Good read.
Thanks.

Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:08 pm

I am posting this picture as some are asking specific questions directed to me.
A vendor replied here early in this thread and shed some light on products they sell.
I read what they wrote, called them, discussed my intentions with the RCs and after that discussion purchased another product and will now try it in place of the one that I was using.

I too am here to learn.

Thanks.

Edit: post trimmed, sig line removed.

Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:19 pm

With some of the "success" I have shown, for me, in this thread, the directions of this product speak of a few of them.

I look forward to trying it out.

I will be using it as a wipe first and once I have my plastic submersion tank arrives, I will see how longer duration soaks work.

Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:01 pm

Background info:

Just to share a little bit more about me and why I go to lengths to test products, techniques and push the envelope is due to my surroundings and my family.

Here are some pictures of what is being processed 50 feet from my shop:

Part of my purpose here, it goes well beyond vans, is to help protect our investments.
We work directly with CAT, a huge heavy machinery vendor.
They have asked for our help, because we see the conditions to test products in and have a massive amount of vehicles, equipment and tools subjected to what most here on the Samba put there van away for the winter to keep it away from.

I have fresh product, raw product and plenty of it.
I literally coat one of my vans in it to see the effects and report them.

This thread and my newly posted others have information in them that is being tested, in the real world, not just a bunch of guessing and posts to try and look cool.

I hope this shows a bit more about where I am at and shows how immersed in the agents that destroy our vans as well as trying to give helpful information as to how and deal with these problems.

Thanks.

D

Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:21 pm

Ganesh:

I would like you all to meet Ganesh, a 1987 Syncro that was purchased off the Samba 8 years ago.
He had virtually no rust on him.
I completely removed the seam sealer and paint in some random areas and have left him 75 feet from the salt barn where we make the roadway additive.
He has seen quite a bit of spray and debris from the process and I have left it on him.

I will be restoring/building Ganesh as a dedicated winter and Snowboarding van once my current projects for clients are completed.

I am 100% confident that not only can I neutralize the bath he has taken, but also deal with the effects, treat them and restore him to better than ever.

Some of the information that I have compiled is being relayed here on the Samba.

I hope this shows even more about where my posts originate from and the lengths I go to help, share information and truly care about saving Vanagons from decay.

The rear upper quarter is primer testing underway, if anyone cares.

D

Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:42 pm

WestyBob wrote: Dylan,

One of my past forte's for decades has been dealing with rust but greatly appreciate your report and updates to new and different techniques. A learning experience.

Those last two posts are for everyone, but I hope you see where I am coming from a little more now.

Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:47 pm

Heaps of salt near vanagons ... yikes !!! ;-)

Good work doing the testing ... keep it rolling.

Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:56 pm

WestyBob wrote: Heaps of salt near vanagons ... yikes !!! ;-)

Good work doing the testing ... keep it rolling.

My controlled environment where I work and store all of the restoration vans, parts and van associated tools/equipment is 50'x300' and sealed up tight as a drum.
Once vans are inside, they will only see the production if they go around back.

The CAT equipment sees it daily.
And I must add that with our help, this new deicer works well, doesn't harm the water table as much as straight product and has shown to cut down on over one half of the damage that straight rock salt has shown in the past.
Plus it smells like the best Boston Baked Beans...ever :lol: :wink:

Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:18 pm

insyncro wrote:
Plus it smells like the best Boston Baked Beans...ever :lol: :wink:

Maybe you can mix it with some peanut oil? :wink:

Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:21 pm

dobryan wrote: insyncro wrote:
Plus it smells like the best Boston Baked Beans...ever :lol: :wink:

Maybe you can mix it with some peanut oil? :wink:

The peanut oil is going to get this same testing.

I'm in Thanksgiving mode now so I have turkey on my brain :wink:

Happy Holidays a little early Volks.

Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:47 pm

Continuing along here:

RD = rust dissolver

I grabbed another set of Syncro arms from my collection:

Pictured, left side RD applied, right side not yet.

More to come :arrow:

Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:32 pm

RD: one brushed on application, 30 minute work time:

I definitely see a change.
The temperature in the booth was approx 60 degrees today.
The directions say 50 degree minimum is advised, so this could be just the start of the dissolving.
Cold slows the process, heat speeds it up.
I will post more pictures of these arms tomorrow.

Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:08 pm

The RDs are directed to soak the metal and stay wet.
I purchased this to make a designated RD unit to soak, brush and cover:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/BikeMaster-700MS-Parts-Washe...nav=SEARCH

More pictures will be posted later tonight :arrow: