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Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:15 am

67 beetle, 1600sp, Bosch alternator upgrade, .009 dizzy.

A few days ago all was fine in the beetle, when I parked it I accidentally let off the clutch like an idiot and stalled her hard.
Two days later I make my 45 min commute to school and notice she is surging on the highway in 3rd and 4th at high RPM, on the trip home she is gutless when giving it gas.
The next day I'm heading to school and she quit out on me. She would spin the starter and was giving gas but wouldn't turn over. After inspecting the points I noticed one side had a pit and the other a point. I replaced the points and condenser, my original condenser had a square plastic plug to go into the square hole in the dizzy, the replacement had a round one.
The bug ran like a champ for about three hours of intermittent use then gave me the finger again.
This morning I replace the condenser with another that had a round plug in because it was what I had on hand. She is sitting in the driveway now.

Are there differences in the electrical capacity of the round vs square plugged condensers and that is why the replacement failed or is there something else to look at as the culprit?

I verified my little jostling of the beetle didn't stick the float in the carb and I blew air through the gas tank vent tube at the suggestion of a local vw was before the condensers gave me the finger).

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:52 pm

Just eliminate both and put in a Pertronix ignitor.

Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:30 pm

Buy Bosch condensers. Not all condensers are made the same. Break open a few and you'll see the difference. Bosch have been the most reliable for me.

Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:50 pm

Yes, they are different--and it's not just the shape of the plug.

Make sure you get the condenser that matches your distributor.

I went through the same crap when I first got my latest bug--after a 19-year hiatus.

There is a chart that reputable vendors have in their catalogs. Match the points and condenser to the distributor number. Then your points won't get pitted up.

Tim

Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:48 pm

Has the car always eaten condensers the entire time you've owned it, or is this new behaviour? If new, did you perform any maintenance or replace any parts close to the time frame it started acting up?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:01 pm

mukluk wrote: Has the car always eaten condensers the entire time you've owned it, or is this new behaviour? If new, did you perform any maintenance or replace any parts close to the time frame it started acting up?

I've had it for about two years now.
I had the engine rebuilt right off the bat because the cam was toast. about all I've really done to the electrical system is install a stereo and swap from a generator to an alternator after the the genny died.

I do have a cluster of gauges zip tied under the hood up front until I install my three guage mount under the dash (I made wood panels for the front of the dash.

Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:13 pm

So does that mean the burning condenser behaviour is new or not? Did it start shortly after swapping to the alternator or one of the other things you did or no?

Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:36 pm

mukluk wrote: So does that mean the burning condenser behaviour is new or not? Did it start shortly after swapping to the alternator or one of the other things you did or no?

It's something new, it was running fine with the Alt for a good two or three months.

Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:12 am

Quote: Yes, they are different--and it's not just the shape of the plug.
What do you mean by different? The method of mounting? Electrically the condenser and the coil are a 'matched set'. The distributor contains the points, just a switch. :?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:17 am

EMPIImp69 wrote: Just eliminate both and put in a Pertronix ignitor.
What do you suggest when it fails?... and they do.

Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:43 am

Quote: What do you suggest when it fails?... and they do.

Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:44 am

Glenn wrote: EMPIImp69 wrote: Just eliminate both and put in a Pertronix ignitor.
What do you suggest when it fails?... and they do.

13 going on 14 years of daily driving, never a failure. points and condenser fail too you know. :wink:

Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:50 am

67jason wrote: Glenn wrote: EMPIImp69 wrote: Just eliminate both and put in a Pertronix ignitor.
What do you suggest when it fails?... and they do.

13 going on 14 years of daily driving, never a failure. points and condenser fail too you know. :wink:

I'll probably pick one up and pray it doesn't get nuked too... Then I'd know I got another, more F*ed up problem, but I wouldn't know what it is. :lol:

Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:58 am

runamoc wrote: Quote: Yes, they are different--and it's not just the shape of the plug.
What do you mean by different? The method of mounting? Electrically the condenser and the coil are a 'matched set'. The distributor contains the points, just a switch. :?

Read this on the following link and it may help you understand the variability in quality of condensers. Like any other part, there are ones that are better and more reliable than others.

http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/cap_failure/

Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:13 am

Glenn wrote: EMPIImp69 wrote: Just eliminate both and put in a Pertronix ignitor.
What do you suggest when it fails?... and they do.

If you are going to drive an old VW, you have to carry a tool box/bag (or accept calling tow trucks). It's just a reality.

In my tool bag, I carry tools and an assortment of spare parts:

- Bosch points
- Bosch condenser
- Bosch rotor
- Comolete 009 Distributor with new points gapped and new condenser installed and ready to drop in.
- Fuel pump with gaskets, block, and rod.
- New Pertronix coil
- Coil Wire
- Plug Wires
- Spark Plugs
- Belt
- extra wire and terminals/alligator clips
- Fuses
- oil
- electrical tape
- duct tape
- a myriad of tools

I have 2 bugs. One with a 009 points+condenser and the other a SVDA with electronic ignition. Whichever one I drive I move the tool bag to. If the ei goes out, I just drop in my spare 009 and plug the vacuum hose with a golf tee (in the bag too). Static time to 7.5* BTDC with my test light (in tool bag) and roll. I've had 3 occasions over 15 years that a coil died without warning. A 5 minute roadside fix if you have the stuff on hand.

I'm going to start a "what's in your tool bag" thread. Lessons learned the hard way over the years.

Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:53 am

VW condenser values are all pretty much the same. Quality is another matter. My suggestion is find an NOS condenser.

Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:57 am

tasb wrote: My suggestion is find an NOS condenser.
NOS condensers can fail suddenly due to age.

While i'm using a 50 year old condenser I have seen them fail suddenly. I've sold thousands of Bosch 02 006 and 02 107 condensers with maybe a handful of early failures.

Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:05 am

What coil do you have?

Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:05 am

KTPhil wrote: What coil do you have?

Aside from "an old ass blue Bosch one" I can't give any extra info at the moment, I will be able to give more information in a couple of hours when I get home. :oops:

Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:14 am

2T2-Crash wrote: KTPhil wrote: What coil do you have?

Aside from "an old ass blue Bosch one"
Actually Bosch made 5 different 12v "Blue" coils not counting all the aftermarket ones.