TheSamba.com :: View topic - Rear shoe pins keep falling into drum...?

Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:14 pm

I've put about 150 miles on my car since last month. I've had to take the drums off twice for each rear wheel because the pins keep coming loose and dropping the springs into the drum. Any ideas why this keeps happening?

Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:32 pm

Too long of pins?

Distorted holes in the backing plate?

Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:56 pm

:arrow:

Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:01 pm

The end of the new pins is smaller than the originals . I noticed it recently when doing a brake job on my 63 .
I ended up using the old ones .
I'm shure that the company that makes them saves money by not making them as big as the old ones ; another example of CHEEP Repops ..
.I paid top dollar from WW and expected better quality .
I'm Very disappointed with them .

you might want to check your right bottom adjuster ; it looks like it isn't on the shoe enough . the adjuster has an angle to it that is supposed to match the shoe

Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:03 pm

Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:21 pm

I'm not sure what you are trying to show there Grandpa Pete. If the brakes in question are 1958-1964 it should not have those adjusters and if those are used the pads won't sit quite right which may cause the hold down springs come loose. The older adjusters have a narrow flat bottom slot. Those angled adjusters are for 1965 and newer brakes and need to be installed the right way on them, but frequently the drum won't go on if they are installed backwards.

I think that using reproduction pins could be the problem. Another possible cause is using front brake pins on the rear brakes. 1958-1967 Beetles have 30mm wide rear brakes and 40mm wide front brakes so the pins would be about 5mm to long and have very little spring tension to hold them in place.

I generally do not replace that particular hardware (pins, springs, and caps.) I clean it up and reuse the old parts. It just had to stay on, it doesn't have to pull inward very much. Some sand rail owners even used to remove the thin tin part of the backing plate that the those springs fit into, keeping only the spine that went between the wheel cylinder and adjuster (using 1958-1964 rear brakes.) That wouldn't be a good idea on the street, the ebrake is lost by that and I hear they are quite a bit more prone to squealing. It was done to help shed sand and water.

Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:46 am

I should've clarified...

The picture is not of my car, but one I found on google to illustrate my problem.

So the inside of the drum is what is knocking the retainers off?

What's the answer though. I really HATE having to keep taking these axle nuts off.

Also, I need to keep replacing wheel cylinder boots because the broken springs shred them.

Use shortest pins possible? Is the tighter/tightest the best?

Fab something out of molly-bolts and washers?

Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:50 am

Do you have the original hold down kit or crappy aftermarket?
The pins have to hold the shoes tight no slack what soever.

Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:00 am

60ragtop wrote: Do you have the original hold down kit or crappy aftermarket?
The pins have to hold the shoes tight no slack what soever.

I do not have the original stuff. It was a transaxle that was replaced and I don't have any of the old parts.

So the object is to get it as tight as humanly possible. Got it!

Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:05 am

No, not as tight as humany possible... only the axle nuts please. Quite snug will work. :wink:

This problem is very prevalent with new rebuild kits... The pins are quite longer, like mentioned.

A cheap fix if you do not have the originals is to use small washers on the backside of the backing plate...

But... Just go get some originals... These are brakes we are talking about here.

Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:19 am

VeeDubDoug wrote: No, not as tight as humany possible... only the axle nuts please. Quite snug will work. :wink:

This problem is very prevalent with new rebuild kits... The pins are quite longer, like mentioned.

A cheap fix if you do not have the originals is to use small washers on the backside of the backing plate...

But... Just go get some originals... These are brakes we are talking about here.

So is the main idea to not have any bit of the spring/pin protruding past the outside of the shoes?

Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:23 am

No part of the hold down spring assembly should extend past the edge of the brake shoes.

Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:00 am

no play meaning you have to use some force to install the spring and holder.
Are the slots in the holder in good shape and not wallowed out?

Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:28 am

60ragtop wrote: no play meaning you have to use some force to install the spring and holder.
Are the slots in the holder in good shape and not wallowed out?

The holders are new.. I had some extra stuff from when I bought an extra hardware kit.

Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:54 am

r u wide 5, what kinda lugs do you have?

Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:27 am

gimpy60 wrote: r u wide 5, what kinda lugs do you have?

Yes, Wide 5... Not sure the about the lugs though. They came with the new swing axle... They are chrome, acorn shaped, and take a 23mm lugwrench to get them off. The originals on the front wheels are much smaller

Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:00 am

I think I see where Gimpy is going with this. The lug bolts for later model 4 lug wheels are longer than the wide 5 lug bolts. If you use them they will hit the retaining springs. I have used them but cut them shorter to match my original ones.

Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:00 am

make sure the lugs don't protrude to far past the threads in the drum.

Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:23 pm

UPDATE... Me thinks these lug bolts provided with my new swing axles are too long....

Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:26 pm

I was able to aquire some OEM hardware from a friend... About ready to put the drum back on...