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Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:51 pm

I'm debating on which cam to buy. The W100 or the Cb Cheater cam.

I'm building a mild 1776 with as of now a single 30/31 carb. The valvetrain will remain stock. I'm looking for something that will help now but will also be good if I get a dual carb setup later.

Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:20 pm

Yes maybe on the W-100 It's quite a bit more cam than the CB-2280 cheater cam.
I like the W-100 on single port engines.
But I used one on my Stockish engine below but it's a Dual port etc... and It wouldn't idle with the stock DP engine carb which is the PICT-34 Solex.

Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:43 pm

Web 86 is between the W100 and the CB2280 but you can easily go bigger ratio rockers at a later date to take advantage of duals.

The idle on the CB2280 will be better than the Engle with a single carb on it. The idle with the Web86 will be better than the Engle also with a single carb.

I would go Web86 as it's a bit "more" than the CB2280 but that's just me. Engle w100 might work fine for you but for me a bit much for a single carb.

Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:26 pm

Although the Webcam is in the middle it is different due to symmetry which makes it more of a cam designed for an engine that has an induction barrel dedicated to each cylinder.

CB-2280
Adv. Duration 274°
Dur. @ .050" 222°
Lift @ cam .359"
Lift w/1.1:1 Rocker Arms .394"

Webcam 86.

CB-2239 almost the same as a W-100 some perfer it over the W-100
Adv. Duration 276°
Dur. @ .050" 234°
Lift @ cam .380"
Lift w/1.1:1 Rocker Arms .417"

Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:37 am

Danwvw wrote
Quote: Although the Webcam is in the middle it is different due to symmetry which makes it more of a cam designed for an engine that has an induction barrel dedicated to each cylinder.

As opposed to say the stock VW cam grind which has the same symmetry? Sorry I don't see the logic of the statement

http://www.webcamshafts.com/pages/automobile/volkswagen/install_data/tc_000670_001611.html Stock Cam Grind

http://www.webcamshafts.com/pages/automobile/volkswagen/install_data/tc_000670_002436.html Web 86 Grind

Given the two choices of W100 or CB2280 the CB may be better for now. W100 maybe better later with duals. I had thought to mention the 86 because some people like it and it's one of very few cams you can go from 1.1:1 up to 1.5:1 ratio rockers without changing the cam. Plus you could put beehives on it. I've driven the Web 86 on a single carb stockish motor. Seemed to run fine.

Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:22 am

My car has is a 1835, it used to have a 30 solex on it and a w110 cam and It may have had single hi rev springs but I doubt it. That combo lived together in a baja bug for over 20 years and would idle at 700 rpm. I rebuilt the top end with some ported heads and dual 40s, really woke it up. Granted I only drive the car when it was worn out but the rebuild added some serious power differences. I never touched the short block, still has the same 110 cam in it. I should also say that I set the compression at 8:1, she will be torn completely down here soon for new bearings, probly a w125 cam and have the heads cut down to get 10:1 compression. Sometimes combos work even though there not supposed to. I say you go with single high rev springs, a w110 and get yourself around 8:1 compression. Run the single carb for now if you want to go with duals or go with a single Weber 44.

Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:18 am

Here's what I used for my dual 34ICT 1776. This will work well with the single carb for your initial setup as well.

https://vwparts.aircooled.net/SCAT-C25-Type-1-Camshaft-1-1-or-1-25-Rockers-20004-p/20004.htm

Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:10 am

PaytonD21 wrote: I'm debating on which cam to buy. The W100 or the Cb Cheater cam.

I'm building a mild 1776 with as of now a single 30/31 carb. The valvetrain will remain stock. I'm looking for something that will help now but will also be good if I get a dual carb setup later.

What kind of heads? Why stay with a 30/31? If you have bone stock heads and are staying with a 30/31, I would stay with a stock cam.

If you are getting better flowing dual port heads and can do a 34 pict 3 with bigger jetting, the W100 will work great. I've built plenty like that, great idle, great low end, great motor. Oh, you would also need to bump the CR to 8.5 to 1.

Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:41 am

Stock cams don't have any valve opening overlap.
Stock Cam Card.

Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:54 pm

Quote: Stock cams don't have any valve opening overlap.

Other than -1BTDC to -1ATDC is two degrees overlap. Which is why a stock cam is smoother at idle than a W100 which has 20 degrees overlap. My ignorance concerns the premise that symmetrical openings for overlap in relation to TDC make bad single carb cams? Enlighten me please. You seem to imply the Web86 is a bad cam for single carbs based on symmetry. Which I am assuming you mean the valve overlap looks like it's centered on TDC. Don't want to high jack the thread. PM me if you want. If you need me to say you win, fine you win. The Web 86 is a bad, evil cam that should never, ever be used or considered for a single carb or stock engine. OK?

It's just that I never heard the theory that a symmetrical overlap cam grind automatically makes it bad for a single carb engine. So only offset or staggered opening/close overlap times in relation to TDC cams are OK to use for single barrel induction? Me thinks it has more to do with total overlap than it does on if the center of the overlap is at or off of TDC. Looking just at the numbers isn't going to tell you where the center of the overlap is either since the ramp is rarely linear. But I digress. And I am probably wrong in my reasoning anyway.

I mentioned the 86 because you can easily put in 1.1:1 to 1.5:1 ratio rockers at a later date without changing the cam. A lot of people like the 86 grind. The Web 86 has been described as a "stocker plus" per ACN as is the CB2280 also described on ACN. Kudos to John for his catalog descriptions and his website.

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Web-Cam-Type-1-Camshaft-Grind-86-1-1-or-1-25-p/00-032.htm

If the W100 rings your bell, fine. It's a great cam, nothing wrong with it at all. Wholly appropriate for the scenario laid out (excepting springs) and as long as you never want to use any ratio rockers above 1.25:1 It sure does have a ton of lift on it so should help wear things in more quickerer than other cams. Both the W100 and W110 have been tried, tested, go to cams for literally decades.

OP should note that unless he keeps his stock cam, both Engle and CB seem to recommend changing the springs to at least single HD . If he's truly set on keeping the valve train stock then I wholly agree with Roy that keeping the stock cam is a good idea even if he goes to dual carbs later down the line.

Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:11 pm

The -1 and -1 are added algebraically as an absolute 2 degrees of separation between close and open. So No overlap.

It's all good this is important stuff when trying to figure out what cam to run for a future carb change. I have not tried the 86 but like it's numbers. I think "PaytonD21" is talking about a single port engine not sure? I am sure not sold yet on the W-100 for a Dual Port engine! Mine kind of has a little trouble with it and in fact, I am considering the Webcam 86.

Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:09 pm

Danwvw wrote: The -1 and -1 are added algebraically as an absolute 2 degrees of separation between close and open. So No overlap.

It's all good this is important stuff when trying to figure out what cam to run for a future carb change. I have not tried the 86 but like it's numbers. I think "PaytonD21" is talking about a single port engine not sure? I am sure not sold yet on the W-100 for a Dual Port engine! Mine kind of has a little trouble with it and in fact, I am considering the Webcam 86.

What are the rest of your specs Dan?

Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:21 pm

[email protected] wrote:
What are the rest of your specs Dan?
Dual Zenith NDIX 32 Carburetors Current Configuration

Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:54 pm

Danwvw wrote: [email protected] wrote:
What are the rest of your specs Dan?
Dual Zenith NDIX 32 Carburetors Current Configuration

What's the CR?

Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:14 pm

8.1:1

Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:00 pm

I was hoping to reuse the stock valve train since there was nothing wrong with it, but after reading more on ACN I see single HD springs might be on the to buy list.

The motor used to be a dual port 1600 with just the 30/31 on it. As I don't currently have another carb the plan was to reuse it for now. But if I go with the w100 I'll have to at least look into a 34 pict.

Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:34 pm

Danwvw wrote:

Quote: It's all good this is important stuff when trying to figure out what cam to run for a future carb change.

Still not seeing where the logic or even lexicon (what you are calling symmetry isn't what one normally sees when discussing cams) for your statement comes from regarding single induction use and/or using the 86 but as long as you are using your idiopathic powers for good and not evil we'll all be safe. I need to change my bong water and apply metaphysics to it and see what I come up with to explain it.

I can say with cam shaft choices it's really easy to be disappointed. It seems more and more that good choices are based more on learned and tried opinions rather than any mathematical formulas. If reputable, knowledgeable people who have actual hands on experience recommend a cam is probably a better way to choose a cam than by simply looking at the numbers on the cam card.

A call put into Web or to CB may be of benefit for the OP.

I had a W100 in a dual port 1600 a long time ago and wasn't really that impressed with it. Either with a single 34 or dual 34 ICTs. Have no idea if the grind has changed from way back then as it was over 30 years ago. Had to wait 45K miles to blow that motor up to try another cam. And not for lack of trying mind you. I have learned that you have to consider heads, valves, carbs, cams, exhausts, compression ratio, deck height, springs and rockers all at the same time to make any kind of rational decision when choosing a cam shaft.

Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:05 pm

If you use HD springs, you also should get bolt on shafts (or at least solid shim the rockers), and HD push rods. I know a lot of guys don't, but just because they did it doesn't mean it's a good idea. This is the problem with "going bigger", is there are a lot of additional associated costs that aren't obvious up front.

The beauty of the Cheater cams is you CAN use stock springs, push rods, and rockers.

PaytonD21 wrote: I was hoping to reuse the stock valve train since there was nothing wrong with it, but after reading more on ACN I see single HD springs might be on the to buy list.

Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:48 pm

The web 86 is like most of the Webcam 86 series grinds and is a fantastic cams for mild apps. If I owned a bus it would be my choice hands down along with 1.3 rockers.

I built years ago a 1776 with 86-5 (244@ .050"") along with sig 1.5 rockers, 44 idf's and 40X35.5 ported heads for a Ghia. For what it was the results were fantastic, fast and reliable.

Webcam grinds their cams with no retard or advance (symetrical) unless you ask for it. You can always buy an adjustable gear and set it where you want.

I am not a fan of stock rocker cams and just don't use them for anything except a stock engine.

Ratio rockers can be had for a little over $100 so why bother with VW rockers?

Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:15 pm

Single hd springs, stock push rods, w110 cam and you will be fine with your carb. This leaves you room to go dual carbs and gain some power. Then you could go with 1.25 rockers and upgrade to hd aluminum push rods or chormoly and get s little more power. Like I said before, my motor lived for 20+ years with a w110, stock pushrods and maybe hd single springs but I think there stock with a single 30 pic carb. It also would idle just fine with an offroad quiet pack exhaust. I could do some digital dyno for you if you would like.