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Tue May 15, 2018 7:06 am

Post a photo of your gas tank/vent hook up.

My money is on the lack of proper venting. Without proper venting there will be suction in the gas tank and the fuel will not flow like it is supposed to.

Tue May 15, 2018 8:33 am

You are doing it for 1 minute, not driving to the beach that way.

daytonaone wrote: I thought about doing that , not sure I want to do 70 miles an hour on the expressway with my gas cap , Lol

Tue May 15, 2018 4:47 pm

74 Thing wrote: Post a photo of your gas tank/vent hook up.

My money is on the lack of proper venting. Without proper venting there will be suction in the gas tank and the fuel will not flow like it is supposed to.

I have a flip top gas cap with a vent hole in the center, no other vent on the tank. I just enlarged the hole to 1/8" but havent tried it yet.

It rained here most of the day so , i will drive it tomorow on the expresway and see if the fuel filter empties out again.

According to old school car guys 1/8" gas cap vent is enough for a V8 engine.

My boat gas tank has 5/8 vent wich is pretty standard on boats. My 175 v6 merc has 3 two barrel carbs and chugs down the fuel, lol.

My replacement electric pump comes on Friday i hoping second time is a charm.

Tue May 15, 2018 7:38 pm

What kind of car?

I still say it is the vent line or lack thereof. A good test is when you run into this problem just remove the cap then and check to see if the symptoms go away.

Thu May 17, 2018 11:24 am

modok wrote: Most of these complaints end up being cheap gauges, usually liquid filled.

If you want to test the fuel pressure, use a professional quality vac/fuel pressure testing gauge.

I think my Jegs gauge is accurate in first start up after that it's questionable. Are there any fuel pressure gauges that you recommend for permanent installation?

I see Auto Meter makes gauge for around 40 50 bucks got really good reviews.

Thanks, Greg

Thu May 17, 2018 5:15 pm

I'd rather encourage you to NOT do that.
A bourdon tube gauge capable of measuring low pressures accurately+being heat resistant AND certified to withstand vibration , is not practical. It would be very expensive. Since such a thing would cost more than the fuel pump, IMO, if it's mission critical that this thing WORK, just put in two fuel pumps :wink:

The carter rotaries can be plumbed in parallel, each with it's own switch.

I get the feeling the build quality on those carter pumps is not what it once was, but they are just such a useful design..... IMO still a good choice.

Fri May 18, 2018 9:15 am

oldschool5er wrote: I did this same setup last week using the Carter and a Jegs psi gauge. I used it on Dual Weber 44idf's using a regulator set at 3 psi. I started noticing the psi would drop to zero after about 10 min of idling although the engine acted normal. I called Carter to ask about it and they said the pump has an internal bypass in it so if you are not running a fuel tank return line it will start bypassing until demand picks up and you will see psi climb back up when the pump stops bypassing. I found I did not have to run a tank return line on this setup as the pump bypassing did not affect the engine demand. Carter said it would not cause harm to the pump by not running a return line. First time I used a Carter so we shall see. P4070.

Well I'm not happy with Jegs they told me they send me out a new pump this week and now they're telling me it's on backorder with no ETA.

How is your pump working out ?

Apparently the p60504 of stock everywhere, they're changing the part number.

Fri May 18, 2018 7:25 pm

Did you try acn and CB?
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Rotary-Electric-Fuel-Pump-3-25-psi-7mm-Fittings-p/rotary.htm
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/3193.htm

Fri May 18, 2018 9:07 pm

There are alternatives to the Carter

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=697498&highlight=fuel+pump

You can always check ebay and amazon and rockauto since you have the part number.

Fri May 18, 2018 11:25 pm

daytonaone wrote: oldschool5er wrote: I did this same setup last week using the Carter and a Jegs psi gauge. I used it on Dual Weber 44idf's using a regulator set at 3 psi. I started noticing the psi would drop to zero after about 10 min of idling although the engine acted normal. I called Carter to ask about it and they said the pump has an internal bypass in it so if you are not running a fuel tank return line it will start bypassing until demand picks up and you will see psi climb back up when the pump stops bypassing. I found I did not have to run a tank return line on this setup as the pump bypassing did not affect the engine demand. Carter said it would not cause harm to the pump by not running a return line. First time I used a Carter so we shall see. P4070.

Well I'm not happy with Jegs they told me they send me out a new pump this week and now they're telling me it's on backorder with no ETA.

How is your pump working out ?

Apparently the p60504 of stock everywhere, they're changing the part number.

I sold the car last week less the engine so I only got to test it for 50 miles and when the new owner drove it, so not a good enough test IMO. When I pulled the engine I kept the pump and both are going in another car. But it was fine up to the point I pulled it.

I want to be clear on Jegs, I use them for some stuff because the national warehouse is 20 min from me and I can get anything on will call fast and at extended hours. The choice of a Carter was because of the same reason you had said and I had heard some people had good luck with them, if anything I guess it could go on the test stand.

I was going to respond about using Jegs fuel psi gauge and accuracy but I have not had time. I did verify my psi with a +/- .5% accuracy digital lab gauge with an isolator on it and found it was close enough. I won't drive around with my lab standard hooked up lol. Just for info I will post a pic of the digital I use for Vacuum and psi. You cannot really calibrate a gauge like that so it is just a loose comparison. I also have a needle puller for calibration on more expensive calibratable gauges but not in this case on a cheap gauge. I will remove the gauge when I am done with testing as even with an isolator on it I don't want a chance of a fuel leak at the rear and they are not exactly reliable.
send me all your crappy Jegs China gauges and I will tell you how far off they are lol.

Fri May 18, 2018 11:52 pm

One time my buddy had a high pressure fuel system, bosche pump, with a jegs gauge and regulator. Yeah, the liquid filled kind.

The fuel pressure kept slowly dropping as we fiddled with it, so we kept turning up the regulator. As I'm looking at the gauge all of a sudden the glass busts, gasoline spraying out.

What was really going on, is it had an internal leak. We had turned the fuel pressure up to 150PSI. :shock: Once the pressure -inside- the gauge got high enough the glass broke.

So how CAN you have a SEALED pressure gauge that reads accurately?

You can't. think about it!!! It's impossible!! If you want to read pressure VS atmosphere it can't be sealed.

Sat May 19, 2018 7:44 am

modok wrote:

So how CAN you have a SEALED pressure gauge that reads accurately?

You can't. think about it!!! It's impossible!! If you want to read pressure VS atmosphere it can't be sealed.

But we are talking PSIG correct? a ruptured Bourdon tube analog with needle dampning wouldn't be a PSIA gauge. Or are you saying to use an absolute gauge for fuel monitoring? I thought the purpose of the air bubble space was for that exact purpose of allowing for Bourdon tube movement.

Sat May 19, 2018 7:51 am

https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/carter,P60504,fuel+pump,6256

I am finding it hard to believe 2 brand new fuel pumps are defective, the odds are like putting the man in the moons eye out with a BB-gun.... And I never used a fuel pressure gauge unless pump was suspect and then only the type that is incorporated in vacuum gauge, power up pump, have pressure, good to go.... Think trying to be so technologically correct is killing you.... It's a car not a space shuttle...

Also do you have any type of safety control module on pump?...

http://revolutionelectronics.com/Fuel_Pump.html

Its a safety issue...

Dale

Sat May 19, 2018 1:04 pm

oldschool5er wrote: daytonaone wrote: oldschool5er wrote: I did this same setup last week using the Carter and a Jegs psi gauge. I used it on Dual Weber 44idf's using a regulator set at 3 psi. I started noticing the psi would drop to zero after about 10 min of idling although the engine acted normal. I called Carter to ask about it and they said the pump has an internal bypass in it so if you are not running a fuel tank return line it will start bypassing until demand picks up and you will see psi climb back up when the pump stops bypassing. I found I did not have to run a tank return line on this setup as the pump bypassing did not affect the engine demand. Carter said it would not cause harm to the pump by not running a return line. First time I used a Carter so we shall see. P4070.

Well I'm not happy with Jegs they told me they send me out a new pump this week and now they're telling me it's on backorder with no ETA.

How is your pump working out ?

Apparently the p60504 of stock everywhere, they're changing the part number.

I sold the car last week less the engine so I only got to test it for 50 miles and when the new owner drove it, so not a good enough test IMO. When I pulled the engine I kept the pump and both are going in another car. But it was fine up to the point I pulled it.

I want to be clear on Jegs, I use them for some stuff because the national warehouse is 20 min from me and I can get anything on will call fast and at extended hours. The choice of a Carter was because of the same reason you had said and I had heard some people had good luck with them, if anything I guess it could go on the test stand.

I was going to respond about using Jegs fuel psi gauge and accuracy but I have not had time. I did verify my psi with a +/- .5% accuracy digital lab gauge with an isolator on it and found it was close enough. I won't drive around with my lab standard hooked up lol. Just for info I will post a pic of the digital I use for Vacuum and psi. You cannot really calibrate a gauge like that so it is just a loose comparison. I also have a needle puller for calibration on more expensive calibratable gauges but not in this case on a cheap gauge. I will remove the gauge when I am done with testing as even with an isolator on it I don't want a chance of a fuel leak at the rear and they are not exactly reliable.

The p60504 is being replaced so I looked into using your pump, but it is for multiple carbs.

I was able to find one at Dune Buggy Warehouse so hopfully i will get it next week.

Sat May 19, 2018 1:10 pm

I don't care for the on engine gauges. I have seen a lot which read incorrectly until you removed the rubber plug to "burp" the gauge, until the next time. On the engine is a tough environment, massive temp and pressure swings.

Sat May 19, 2018 1:30 pm

modok wrote: One time my buddy had a high pressure fuel system, bosche pump, with a jegs gauge and regulator. Yeah, the liquid filled kind.

The fuel pressure kept slowly dropping as we fiddled with it, so we kept turning up the regulator. As I'm looking at the gauge all of a sudden the glass busts, gasoline spraying out.

What was really going on, is it had an internal leak. We had turned the fuel pressure up to 150PSI. :shock: Once the pressure -inside- the gauge got high enough the glass broke.

So how CAN you have a SEALED pressure gauge that reads accurately?

You can't. think about it!!! It's impossible!! If you want to read pressure VS atmosphere it can't be sealed.

Now i understand why you don't like them, lol. I thought it would be an improvment from glass gauge and verify the pumps fuel pressure.

My fuel gage didnt work so i ran out of gas a few times even though there was gas in the tank. If the glass filter was empty i new what the problem was right away.

I had to measure the gas in the tank before i went out or just fill it up every time i drove it. I was able to fix the gas gauge and calabrate it using a resister across the fuel gauge. Its a stock beetle sender and gas gauge but the tank is shallower than stock. I had to flatten it to fit under the hood of my Dune buggy .

When i replaced the fuel tank connector with the new 5/16 one i found that old one was to long so i could never get the last gallon or two out of my tank. Now my fuel gauge is pretty accurate and i can drive further on a tank of gas.

Sat May 19, 2018 1:52 pm

Dale M. wrote: https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/carter,P60504,fuel+pump,6256

I am finding it hard to believe 2 brand new fuel pumps are defective, the odds are like putting the man in the moons eye out with a BB-gun.... And I never used a fuel pressure gauge unless pump was suspect and then only the type that is incorporated in vacuum gauge, power up pump, have pressure, good to go.... Think trying to be so technologically correct is killing you.... It's a car not a space shuttle...

Also do you have any type of safety control module on pump?...

http://revolutionelectronics.com/Fuel_Pump.html

Its a safety issue...

Dale

I only had one that was not working right, looked like a restock. It was loud and my dune buggy was running rough . I am still waiting for a new one. Almost everybody is out of stock because p60504 is being replaced with a new model. Rock auto is out of stock as well.

I found one and i am hoping to get it next week.

I hooked up my mechanical fuel pump agin for now, buggy is running great now.

That looks like a nice fuel pump controller thanks for the link.

Sat May 19, 2018 2:20 pm

daytonaone wrote:

My fuel gage didnt work so i ran out of gas a few times even though there was gas in the tank. If the glass filter was empty i new what the problem was right away.

I had to measure the gas in the tank before i went out or just fill it up every time i drove it. I was able to fix the gas gauge and calabrate it using a resister across the fuel gauge. Its a stock beetle sender and gas gauge but the tank is shallower than stock. I had to flatten it to fit under the hood of my Dune buggy .

I've gone years without a fuel gauge, and they are usually WAY off anyway, but I've got a new take on it now.
What's the first thing you do when your not sure if a gauge is working.......?
you tap on it!! Of course :wink:
How do you tell if there is gas in your motorcycle? rock it and listen for the sound. So, I think the way to go is get RID of the dampening. LET the gas gauge go bonkers when the fuel sloshes back and forth,,,,,this way you know it's working.

Sat May 19, 2018 2:33 pm

modok wrote: daytonaone wrote:

My fuel gage didnt work so i ran out of gas a few times even though there was gas in the tank. If the glass filter was empty i new what the problem was right away.

I had to measure the gas in the tank before i went out or just fill it up every time i drove it. I was able to fix the gas gauge and calabrate it using a resister across the fuel gauge. Its a stock beetle sender and gas gauge but the tank is shallower than stock. I had to flatten it to fit under the hood of my Dune buggy .

I've gone years without a fuel gauge, and they are usually WAY off anyway, but I've got a new take on it now.
What's the first thing you do when your not sure if a gauge is working.......?
you tap on it!! Of course :wink:
How do you tell if there is gas in your motorcycle? rock it and listen for the sound. So, I think the way to go is get RID of the dampening. LET the gas gauge go bonkers when the fuel sloshes back and forth,,,,,this way you know it's working.

Lol!

You know your advice has inspired me I'm going to install three fuel pressure gauges at three different locations on the fuel line. And I'm going to take an average and that should give me the correct fuel pressure, LOL. And to ensure accuracy I'll use three different brands of fuel pressure gauge!

Sat May 19, 2018 2:48 pm

NO :lol:

Possible solutions:

Take out the peg.

One nice thing about the vac/pressure gauge is that there is no peg. The needle can go both ways. So it gets old...you drop it, ect..... zero is not zero anymore but no problem. You can still use it. You just see the offset and take it into account. So if you take the peg out of your chinesium liquid filled fuel pressure gauge...... you just turn off the fuel pump, see what it reads, turn on the fuel pump, read the difference.

the problem these liquid filled things have is you heat them up to 120-140 degrees or whatever, and that air bubble inside the thing is at 3 PSI+, so the needle is stuck against the peg....you just don't know it.