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Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:10 pm

ZENVWDRIVER wrote: Gary Haberman wrote: Could it possibly be that our hobby has reached a sort of saturation where the average enthusiast is older? Are we dying off? I remember reading a post where it was mentioned that owners of Model Ts can't sell their cars for a reasonable price anymore because there are no takers. Let's face it, we buy our car (in my case and many others, "cars"), fix them up and then what? We slow down our purchases because we are done with repairs or restorations. I don't buy nearly as much as I did years ago. My two bugs are the only cars I drive (wife drives the fancy Lexus). Are car sales dropping? Have all the barn finds been found? I know there are younger people purchasing ACVWs on the west coast but I'm in eastern NY and I rarely see any older VWs, maybe a few times a year. Perhaps a poll of the average owner's age might be telling....

... we moved to Oklahoma from Orange County, NY and I remember there weren't many VWs, even back in the 90s.
I think your assessment is right on... thanks for that.

I grew up for a big chunk of life in Oklahoma...went to high school and college there.....and actually there was a TON of VW there relative to the population.....just not up in the NE part of the state.
Through the 80s and 90s in OKC....lots of VWs, lots of salvage yards for VWs.....a good amount of shops for a city like OKC....Tulsa...less so but still busy. Ray

Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:41 am

Old VWs in my area are not practical to use as daily drivers. No one these days would put up with them in the winter with the comfort and dependability of modern cars. Add to that the toll that salt takes on them. These cars were lucky to last 10 years from new here before rust took the doors and wheels off. It is virtually impossible to find one now that has enough metal left for a restoration. Making a daily driver out of one would condemn it to an early grave from corrosion.

The other issue is life span. Air cooled VWs in stock form needed major engine work anywhere from 30K miles in the Busses to 100K in the cars at best. Today's cars go 300K easily and it is common to rack up 80K per year these days.

As far as finding cheap transportation, an air cooled VW is the last thing you want here. No local parts available, everything must be purchased on line and imported into Canada (yes even the few Canadian outlets stock all US and China parts), no one will fix them for you, they don't have the expertise and don't want old VWs cluttering up their shops waiting for this or that. Any old VW in good shape and ready to go demands a pretty high price.

As for value for your dollar on older cars I have 2 944s that I paid less than $5000 each for. At 30+ years old they are head and shoulders above any air cooled VWs in performance, handling, dependability and with an all galvanized body - rust free! And they are bone stock.

I keep my air cooled VWs out of nostalgia. Strictly for the fun of it.

And some days I wonder at my sanity as street drugs would be less hassle and cheaper.

Just kidding!

Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:08 am

static wrote: There are newspaper articles regularly about how heirs really are not interested in inheriting silverware and bone china from their parents.

One of my frequent fears is me dropping dead and then afterwards my Nephews look at my old Dinky, Matchbox and Corgi collectible toys, shrug and then toss them into the trash.

Anyone concerned about the fate of his/her should have a Last Will and Testament drafted immediately. Talk to people you know and ask if they would want particular items in the event of your death. A Will does not have to be drafted by an attorney, but it may be advisable if your estate is complex or of sufficient monetary or nostalgic value. Contrary to what TV shows and movies present, there is no big mystery regarding a Will (aka The reading of The Will). Find a trustworthy person who will be willing to serve as an Executor, and consider a backup person or two. Once the Will is finalized, distribute copies to all affected parties.

Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:49 pm

If demand is low, lower your prices. It's basic economics

Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:38 am

Onceler wrote: If demand is low, lower your prices. It's basic economics

this current change goes deeper than adjusting prices, although that may have something to do with it... I think, it has more to do with the motion of the whole revolutionary air-cooled VW movement, having run-it's-coarse... we are witnessing the beginning stages of the great air-cooled-die-out, along with the boomers, who created this whole cultural revolution...
Perhaps the stragglers (the next generation)will be able to keep things going for a while.... lets hope so.

Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:33 am

ZENVWDRIVER wrote: Onceler wrote: If demand is low, lower your prices. It's basic economics

this current change goes deeper than adjusting prices, although that may have something to do with it... I think, it has more to do with the motion of the whole revolutionary air-cooled VW movement, having run-it's-coarse... we are witnessing the beginning stages of the great air-cooled-die-out, along with the boomers, who created this whole cultural revolution...
Perhaps the stragglers (the next generation)will be able to keep things going for a while.... lets hope so.

Kids in colleges today see car ownership as too big a burden for many reasons.

Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:19 am

I agree. Also since the rear engined air cooled platform never evolved into modern times it seems pretty antiquated to younger generations. Whereas traditional front engine rear wheel drive cars can be updated with modern drive trains

Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:13 pm

[quote="Spezialist"][quote="ZENVWDRIVER"] Onceler wrote: If demand is low, lower your prices. It's basic economics

Kids in colleges today see car ownership as too big a burden for many reasons.[/quote]

... lotta' truth to that...our 25 year old still is driving our old '06 Accord with 236,000 miles on it. He moved out 2 years ago and thought he'd get his own wheels and never did... we don't mind and glad he realizes what's really important - saving lotza' dough - having no debt.
He drove an Acura RSX type s in collage - smart kid.- that's a Honda - the best bang for a buck.
i'm keeping my 12 cars, cause he says he wants 'em, when I croak... he can surly afford them... guess he'll have someone else fix 'em except my Toyotas and Hondas - they just seem to go forever. He sure loves the VW busses.

Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:22 pm

... we moved to Oklahoma from Orange County, NY and I remember there weren't many VWs, even back in the 90s.
I think your assessment is right on... thanks for that.[/quote]

I grew up for a big chunk of life in Oklahoma...went to high school and college there.....and actually there was a TON of VW there relative to the population.....just not up in the NE part of the state.
Through the 80s and 90s in OKC....lots of VWs, lots of salvage yards for VWs.....a good amount of shops for a city like OKC....Tulsa...less so but still busy. Ray[/quote]

... we're in the Tulsa area .. very affordable place to live and VWs were cheap, cheap, cheap - not many around any more.

Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:53 pm

ZENVWDRIVER wrote: ... we moved to Oklahoma from Orange County, NY and I remember there weren't many VWs, even back in the 90s.
I think your assessment is right on... thanks for that.
[/quote]
Wellll.... if you remember seeing a blue & white ‘72 highroof or the typeIII pickup in the Newburgh/Poughkeepsie area, I was the asshole kid responsible for that. :P

Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:49 am

TDCTDI wrote: ZENVWDRIVER wrote: ... we moved to Oklahoma from Orange County, NY and I remember there weren't many VWs, even back in the 90s.
I think your assessment is right on... thanks for that.

Wellll.... if you remember seeing a blue & white ‘72 highroof or the typeIII pickup in the Newburgh/Poughkeepsie area, I was the asshole kid responsible for that. :P[/quote]

TDCTDI,
my bro lived in Poughkeepsie and has a 1952 bug... I went to visit him all the time in my'50 rag and little 1972 Honda 600... belonged to the CVA and attended a lot of shows in your area... can't say I really remember your rides, but for some reason, the hi-top rings a bell.

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:42 am

I try very hard to make my parts easy to find in a search, describe them accurately, and usually price them below whatever going rate I can find. And I still get low-ball offers.

It's been my experience, no matter the item or where it's offered for sale, that buyers will offer half (or less), regardless of market value. And I blame the stupid buying-and-selling "reality" shows, like the pawn shop jerks and those dopey picker guys.

They low-ball everybody on everything and many of the sellers are just happy to move the item. And people seem to think that's how it works, because "I seent it on da tee-vee."

Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:21 am

This is the new swapmeet where everyone kicks it, with big brother making sure your just happy enough to spend or sell. :lol:
One day, we’ll have websites that remember the good ole days of websites. Oh wait, they do that already! :lol:

Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:05 am

oprn wrote: The other issue is life span. Air cooled VWs in stock form needed major engine work anywhere from 30K miles in the Busses to 100K in the cars at best. Today's cars go 300K easily and it is common to rack up 80K per year these days.

I agree with you on modern cars and almost no work needed but no way on 30K unless you didn't take care of it or totally overloaded it.

I've owned Bus engines with way more miles with no work done.
Probably more like 60-100K, same as other VWs.

80K/year is normal? I don't even think my brother does that and he drives around all day for work.

Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:09 am

13476 miles per year.

Commerce Department.

80k is a way, way outlier.

Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:44 pm

My post was based strictly on personal experience with factory stock air cooled VWs. Dad bought a new Bus in '69 and the first engine went 34K, the factory replacement installed by the dealer went 42K, our rebuild of the original engine went 60K. Let me remind you that both of the first two engines were well off warranty when they failed so VW knew they were short lived engines. As far as how they were maintained and treated - oil changes every 1000 miles, no maintenance item was ever neglected and Dad was never the type to abuse anything. That was just the reality of the Bus then.

We found the cars normally lasted between 60 and 80K treated right and 100K claims were either a dream or a lie. Take your pick.

They were truly the disposable "Bic Lighter" of the car world!

Again the miles accumulated in my post relate to my own life situation. We live in a rural area where there is very little in the way of amenities locally. All communities larger than 1200 people are 3 hours one way from us. There is no public transportation available, we have children up to 10 hours one way from here so with 3 of us driving to work and weekends we easily rack up 25K each a year.

The company I work for supplies a truck for my work which their policy is to change out every 3 years or 150K. I have never made either one of those criteria, this last truck went down the road to auction at 180K in 1.5 years.

Yes we are above average but can you even imagine the number of engine rebuilds we would have gone through in our 20 year stay here had they all been air cooled VWs? A quick calculation puts us at about 2.5 million miles in those 20 years and at 60K/engine that would have been 42.5 engine rebuilds or just over 2 a year!

That for me is what has changed and why an air cooled VW is a luxury toy and not a daily driver option and as the economy gets tighter that sort of luxury takes a back seat.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:05 am

I don't know. the engine in my 1960 single cab is a completely rebuilt 1964 1500... had that done in 1987-ish. Don't ever drive over 50 mph and that engine is really lasting... I hear some guys boasting how their VW will do 70 mph... they can do that, surely, but it won't last very long... never over 50, is key, in MHO.

I think this VW hobby is really changing. .. one of the big culprits is the crazy-high prices of everything. That is not sustainable... I encourage everyone to boycott crazy-high prices and let those sellers know why you won't buy... if the word gets out and most refuse to buy. I think we'll see a shift to reality again.
Lately, I have encountered potential buyers telling me, they will no longer participate in this crazy-high price atmosphere or even some just getting out of VWs all together.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:32 am

Yep trying to get out, prices are insane now. and I've been driving my VW's over 65 MPH for decades, even on road trips. it's all about maintenance.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:32 am

Yep I’m that guy that drives hard. It’s in my DNA but I’ve got plenty of spares and two turn key engines ready to go at all times. :D since I build my own engines costs are at a minimum. Secret to long lasting engine? Balance and blueprint the lower end, get the CR right spend a little time on the heads, use quality parts.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:13 pm

A late model beetle is a way different animal than a typeII with reduction boxes, the typeII at 50MPH is probably turning close to the same RPM as the super at 75 MPH.