TheSamba.com :: View topic - What Distributor to run with Kadron carbs?

Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:06 am

Hi Im currently running a 1300 with Dual Kadrons , sometimes when I accelerate from low revs my stock distributor cant advance quick enough i believe, causing it to stumble. Im planning on drlling the brass plug out in the carb and fitting a vacum port so I can fit a SVDA distributor. Ive found this kit online and was wondering if anyone thought it was a good deal or am I wasting my money?
https://www.justkampers.com/vw-t2-split-screen-par...ooled.html

Any help much appreciated

Sam

Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:42 am

The risk is that that distributor is junk. 50% of the aftermarket stock style distributores have worse tolerances than a used factory one. I´d find a distributor from a late AB engine (73 1303) or an AR engfine. Give it a little love and set timing to 10-12 idle, 32 @ 2800 and 38-40 at full vacum.
If you are not into playing with a distributor you can also lock your current distributor and buy a CB Black box so you can program the timing, or if you would rather haver the whole thing in one, you can buy the 123 usb or bluetooth. They have become decent products by now.
As always, use lower resistance plug wires. Forget the hype about plug gap. Set the plugs at 0,85 mm.
T

Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:12 am

There are also good alternatives on mechanically advanced distributors:
VJR4BR25, 010, 050, 009 ...

Previous discussion here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=671991&start=0

Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:26 am

I have installed maybe a dozen sets of Kads or more on various engines. My preferred set up is with a German or Mex 034 or similar distributor. I have also used the Pertronix SVDAs with good results. Yeah, the Pertronix isnt as good, but it works and is pretty affordable. Doing the vac port correctly on Kads has been covered and the first correct procedure I had found years ago was by Max Welton.

That being said, I have also used 009s with decent results. And I am sure that a rebuilt 019 would be better. With the mechanicals, I find that a little stronger accel pump shot is needed.

BUT the big thing is properly tuning the carbs. I have found that taking the time to synch the carbs well makes a HUGE difference. (that may be 99% of your problem) I am not a fan of the stock Kad linkage and will only use the Scat or CSP linkage. Correct jetting is very important and making sure you dont have siphoning from the accel pump nozzle is also important. Jetting really isnt magical. There are good suggestions out there that work and something like 55 or 60 idles with 132 mains usually works well on a stock or mild 1600 if at a normal altitude.

Its not magic or rocket science.

Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:40 am

Linkage is the A Number One thing to pay attention to on these carbs. You will have no end of sorrows until you get them closing and opening correctly. I really liked the Kadron style linkage, but couldn't get it to work well, so went with CSP linkage, and can heartily recommend it to anybody trying to get the linkage working well.

As for the distributor choice, all the above is good info. I would add, that my favorite is the cast-iron style SVDA from the 36 horse cars- the "040" or VJU4BR8. It has the same centrifugal advance as the 019, with an adjustable vacuum advance can. It's easy to set up, and will yield better MPG than an 019, with a little nicer off-idle and part-throttle performance.

The only thing I don't like, is that they use a hard to find (here in the US, at least) vacuum fitting, but that's trivial enough to deal with.

It's a pretty olde-schoole choice, but it works well, if you come across a good one. They're pretty easy to clean up and rebuild, too, so if you find a cheap one in good shape it's worth grabbing one.

Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:18 am

019 or VJ4BR8 mechanical.

Aftermarket "SVDA's are crap.

I've sold hundreds of 019 / VJ4BR8 to owners with dual Kads and they all love it.

Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:24 am

I ran dual kads and a German 009 for years back in the 80's no off idle hesitation nor flat spot. I just had the carbs jetted and adjusted correctly.

Today, I'd drill the carb/s for vacuum and run a restored German Bosch 034 vac/mechanical advance distributor. They're excellent after restoration.

I'd only use a new Chinese distributor for a door stop. :wink:

Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:58 am

wcfvw69 wrote: I'd only use a new Chinese distributor for a door stop. :wink:

A couple years ago I picked up a Hot-Spark branded SVDA with electronic ignition module off of Amazon, since I had a gift card to use. Within a week the steel window coverplate on the side of the body had disappeared, and within a couple months the vacuum can had torn internally. Upon replacing the can I realized that the distributor had already worn so heavily that the timing scatter was horrendous. I still have it in a toolbox somewhere for parts, and oddly enough the electronics are still good, so I have the module in another toolbox somewhere. At the time I yanked it, I threw in a good used 009 (I always keep one timed to the engine as a spare, force of habit) and the scatter was unnoticeable.

The Pertronix branded ones are a little better, but likely made by the same Chinese foundry, I bet they are the same thing with better QC, as the parts sure do look identical, as of a year or so ago.

Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:19 pm

Lingwendil wrote: wcfvw69 wrote: I'd only use a new Chinese distributor for a door stop. :wink:

A couple years ago I picked up a Hot-Spark branded SVDA with electronic ignition module off of Amazon, since I had a gift card to use. Within a week the steel window coverplate on the side of the body had disappeared, and within a couple months the vacuum can had torn internally. Upon replacing the can I realized that the distributor had already worn so heavily that the timing scatter was horrendous. I still have it in a toolbox somewhere for parts, and oddly enough the electronics are still good, so I have the module in another toolbox somewhere. At the time I yanked it, I threw in a good used 009 (I always keep one timed to the engine as a spare, force of habit) and the scatter was unnoticeable.

The Pertronix branded ones are a little better, but likely made by the same Chinese foundry, I bet they are the same thing with better QC, as the parts sure do look identical, as of a year or so ago.

I sell a lot of restored German Bosch distributors to folks who admit to "trying to save a buck" and gambled with a new Chinese distributor. After wasting the $ on the distributor and the hours of frustration trying to get it to work right, they bought a restored German Bosch 034 which made their engine run correctly.

It's a testimate to Bosch who made these 034 distributors with quality in mind. I rarely see any wear on the internal parts on 034's that I restore. They work like new post restoration.
The same can't be said with Bosch's 1971-1973 DVDA's. They were not their best quality effort. Most of them are found heavily worn when they are taken apart. They require multiple distributors to be disassembled to harvest enough parts to build one good one.

It is amazing how well these VW's run when they run their original distributors, carbs and fuel pumps.

Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:57 pm

I ran Kads on several engines over the past 30 years. The 009 works okay, especially if you bump the idle speed up. But my best setup, hands down, was with a Pertronics distrbutor and modifying the Kads bases. There is an artical on here which clearly shows how to modify the Kads for a vacuum signal. I manipulated both carbs and teed them together for a signal to the distributor. I then set the timing to 30 degrees at 3000m, allowing the base timing to land where it lands. Ran like a beast! Great carbs! The distributor is now on my 2100 I just built with a set of dual Weber 44s! The distributor is fine, no scatter, smooth advancing. I did disassemble it and clean up the cheap installation methods, filed a couple hard edges, and made sure everything was well aligned.

My theory on these modules, is they are manufactured in the same plant as many of the other ignition modules for cars are. Maybe these are the second rate modules that do not make the cut to be a GM, or Nissan (notice I did not say Honda or Toyota, they had ignitor issues forever) and they find a second life as a hobby type distributor.

I am all for them, since I can see the end in sight for good quality points and condensers. Anyone with an ear to the pulse of this hobby, knows that as a true statement. I want to encourage those manufacturers, or their competitors, to make parts for our old cars, utlizing new technology. Because the old Bosch points are going to go extinct sooner than later!

My two cents. Most know my feelings. I am the first to change my viewpoint, just as soon as a better , and affordable option becomes available.

Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:22 pm

Did anyone notice that he has these carbs on a 1300? Could his problem be oversized carbs/venturis? All your replies are about 1600s.

Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:39 am

Thanks for all your help guys :) not sure what im going to do now (information overload) :D , will probaly try and set them up as well as I can for now and screw in the accelerator pump lever a little, until I can find a decent second hand SDVA distributor or maybe go for a CB Performance Black Box .

Ive got 115 Mains and 55 Idles will have a look and see what venturi's are fiited ( is it easy to tell? )

Sam

Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:18 am

All good advice above. Only thing I might add is, if you need to use the original Kadron linkage for now, it can be made to work correctly. Trick is to set the carbs up to idle without the linkage installed. Attach one end of the linkage to a carb. If the other end cannot be made to line up with the linkage with the adjustment available, just loosen the carb base nuts and rotatoe the carbs on the studs until the linkage snaps on the carb throttle without moving the throttle. Tighten the nuts back up at the carb base. The carbs will be synced correctly.

Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:51 am

Adjust your 'squirters' so they pump right away. No trickle trickle and weak squirt. Immediate Squirt.

Both need be the same. Fix that and you'll be a long way to fixing the flat spot.

Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:59 pm

Yes, and install a small return spring on each carb. This isn't really to close the throttle but to keep any uncontrolled throttle movement to a minimum when using a linkage with only a center return spring.

When the throttle "fluttlers" it can actuate the accelerate pump and cause a nice dribble of raw gas.

Max

Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:34 am

Even with a 1300, don't 115 mains seem really small? I would think maybe 127 or so would be as small as needed. If they need a 115 I STRONGLY suspect that the accel nozzle siphoning is happening with this car.

Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:12 am

Last 1300 I set up kadrons on ended up needing a set of 125 mains, and it was used with a Mexican 034 SVDA, on an otherwise stock engine with a hideaway muffler. Plugs looked good, nice MPG.