TheSamba.com :: View topic

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:43 pm

Hey all! New to Vanagons, but certainly not new to VW's. After lusting after vanlife, I decided to pick up an '86 Westy that I call Bigfoot.

My weekender is a blank canvas, but I have plans to build a full camper interior in it.

I work in a woodshop with CNC capabilities. I want a fully modern camper interior conversion, built to accommodate weekend trips, as well as the occasional long road trip. I'm used to camping in my '79 Westy full camper, and have a good idea of the pros/cons of that layout. I live in Chicago, the Van's my daily driver, I'd like the capability to winter camp/boondock.

My floorplan design will have a cabinet behind the drivers seat, and a cabinet behind the passenger seat with the walkthru behind the seats, similar to early baywindow Westy's. I don't care for swivel front seats. The drivers side cabinet will hold a sink and storage, and the passenger side cabinet will have a gas stovetop above a TF49 fridge. Cabinets will be CNC cut Baltic Birch plywood with natural finish.
These renders are a general idea, but cabinet doors/drawers will be different.

Insulation and sound deadening:
I'm leaning towards bedliner on the interior walls, with sheep wool insulation without vapor barriers. Dynamat? I've read tons and tons about insulation. It doesn't have full camper hookups on the side, and I won't be adding them so no chance of water getting in other than from condensation. I pulled the fiberglass today and it was in good shape with no signs of water. I absolutely won't replace it with more fiberglass. Thoughts?

House Battery:
From everything I've read, a 100ah AGM under the bench seat should be fine for what I' need. Ideally charging from alternator, solar, and a battery charger when hooked up to shore power. Is that overkill? Seems like most setups are alternator/solar or alternator/battery charger. I don't typically stay put when camping. I'd like the sink/fridge/heater/12v outlets to be powered off the house battery.

Shore Power:
I'm unsure about needing a shore power set up, or just a battery charger to plug into. What do you guys think? My TF49 is AC/DC.

Solar:
The Renogy compact design 100w panel should fit within the luggage rack. I'd prefer this set up because I don't want to be moving a loose panel in and out of the van, and I don't have a roof rack to mount a panel to.

Any recommendations on decent charge controllers?

Heater:
I'm leaning towards one of those chinese diesel heaters, but the only hangup I have is mounting the diesel tank somewhere in/on the van. I'm thinking about mounting the heater in the cabinet behind the passenger seat, and mounting the tank there as well to fill up from the sliding door. I really wish they offered a gasoline version that I could tee into the Van's tank.

Flooring:
My subfloor is in good shape, but I'm going to pull it up, address any rust and sound deaden. Atop will be vinyl wood flooring.

Water:
For the sink, I'd like to have removable/easily fillable tanks without having an external fill mounted to the van. Either a tank under the seat or mounted in the cabinet under the sink. I'm considering a tankless hot water heater in the rear closet with a shower head mounted in the rear tailgate.

I'm building on a budget, but I don't want to load my van full of crap. I'm starting with a completely blank slate, but need a little bit of guidance for some of the little details.

Anything you think I should add/delete?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:56 pm

The factory side table is so nice to use that you would be crazy to block it with that big sink cabinet.

Of course there is no need for outside water hookups.

Build some mockup cabinets from cheap wood to get a real feel for space utilization.

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:03 pm

crazyvwvanman wrote: The factory side table is so nice to use that you would be crazy to block it with that big sink cabinet.

Of course there is no need for outside water hookups.

Build some mockup cabinets from cheap wood to get a real feel for space utilization.

The side table has already been removed and sold with the jumpseat. I'll be adding a swivel table.

Thats a great idea about building mock up cabinets. Hadn't thought of that, I'll definitely do this.

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:08 pm

they do make a gasoline heater, they aren't as cheap as the chinese diesels, but it's a long term purchase, so IMO worth the added $$ and not having a diesel/kero tank inside the passenger cabin..
any inevitable spill/seepage will reek for ever.

how many occupants in normal use? the swivel seat is nice when confined to the interior on dark rainy nights

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:15 pm

The Biggest improvement to the Vanagon camper over the Bay camper was the elimination of the cabinet behind the passenger seat and the swivel. Have you actually gone camping, swiveled the passenger seat around and hung out in that space with another person or two? If not, then you really should give that a try before settling on the much more broken up, cramped, non-ergonomic layout that includes a cabinet behind the passenger and destroys the nice open layout.

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:21 pm

To pile on with what Waldo said, the swivel seat is pretty much the greatest. My van was a Weekender, and I thought I loved the open layout. After hanging out with friends in their full Westy while camping together, I realized that their van felt more spacious to me, even with the galley! I installed a swivel seat shortly after, and that was great, except that I stowed our Edgestar fridge right behind the seat, and it was awkward to have my legs on. It wasn't long before I was on the prowl for a full camper interior...

Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:56 pm

I’ve had a few westies and now have a weekender. I do miss the swivel seat. No doubt one of the best features of the van. The stove is also missed dearly. I’m thinking of ditching the backwards seat behind the driver and mounting a weekender cabinet there. Then I can have the stove w fridge and the big ass table and finally.... the swivel seat.

How about them apples?

Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:31 pm

I've camped in both my '79 Westy with swivel seat, and a '74 Westy with the cabinet behind the passenger seat with no swivel. I've had my '79 for over 10 years and I've only had to swivel the seat a handful of times. I understand the appeal, but it isn't what I want. 99% of the time it'll be myself and my girlfriend in the van.

Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:26 pm

'74 Westy was actually the first vehicle I owned. I can understand wanting the full width bed, but you can certainly keep a sink, fridge, and stove behind the driver and still keep the full width bed. What advantage do you see to splitting the cabinets?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:54 am

I too cut my teeth on a Bay Window Westy.

It had the stove assembly just inside the sliding door. It is traditional, I completely see why you chose this layout, it works.
I would design it to be easily removed though, sometimes you just need to carry something big.......

I do suggest you put an outside outlet on the Van to hook up shore power. Yes, you cut a hole in the Van but properly sealed with todays modern chemicals, it shouldn't leak.
Imuse the shore power for batterynchargers, lights and an electric heater that I run all Winter long to ward off condensation and mold. It also helps keep the heavy snow load off of the fiberglass roof.

I suggest a flip up table to the left of the sink. When the seat is folded as a seat, it is a place to dine and additional workspace as you cook.
Also a flip up table on the door side of the stove.

Mount a proper propane tank under the unit and get a quality propane furnace, not a dirty smelly diesel unit.

I thought about doing similar thingsnwith my Weekender...... but never did.

Looks good! Check out sewfine for a new interior, it looks like you've got the self shredding corduroy in there?

This link should be of interest to you......

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=422850

Dave

Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:43 am

Bigfoot looks like it has good bones. Did you find it local?

I'm always excited to see another Vanagon-driving Samba member in the Chicago area.

Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:14 am

djkeev wrote: I too cut my teeth on a Bay Window Westy.

It had the stove assembly just inside the sliding door. It is traditional, I completely see why you chose this layout, it works.

Yes, it is traditional and it works, but neither of those are advantages over a single cabinet setup behind the driver which is also traditional and works but moreover leaves a more open and ergonomic layout.

I also currently own an Adventurewagen and have plans to ditch the Adventurewagen split cabinet setup and make a custom single kitchen cabinet behind the driver. I cannot see any advantages to the split cabinets and see distinct advantages to the single cabinet behind the driver.

What advantages do you see to splitting the cabinets?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:02 am

Neat van and lots of questions.

- 100ah of battery and 100ah of solar is borderline if running a TF, heater and other things, esp. if staying put for a few days on shorter winter days or cloudy days. I have 150'ah if battery and 150ish watts of solar and would really like to go to 200 of each.
- the Bluetooth Victron controller has gotten good reviews here. It's been in my shopping cart at amazon for awhile and I'll eventually buy one to replace my cheapo.
https://www.amazon.com/Victron-SmartSolar-Charge-C...&psc=1

- I personally favor the swivel passenger seat (swiveling the seat is one of the first things we do to set up our two-person camp: one of us eventually sits on the bench, the other on the swiveled seat) and I dislike designs that block the slider. But that's my van. :D

Enjoy!

Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:05 pm

I am building a bus for camping in Europe. Starting with a tin top. I am going to only add the Westy kitchen unit behind the driver. That way I get the sink, stove, and TF65 without using up floor space behind the passenger seat. To each their own, whatever works for you is fine. :D

Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:09 pm

?Waldo? wrote: djkeev wrote: I too cut my teeth on a Bay Window Westy.

It had the stove assembly just inside the sliding door. It is traditional, I completely see why you chose this layout, it works.

Yes, it is traditional and it works, but neither of those are advantages over a single cabinet setup behind the driver which is also traditional and works but moreover leaves a more open and ergonomic layout.

I also currently own an Adventurewagen and have plans to ditch the Adventurewagen split cabinet setup and make a custom single kitchen cabinet behind the driver. I cannot see any advantages to the split cabinets and see distinct advantages to the single cabinet behind the driver.

What advantages do you see to splitting the cabinets?

Never said it was the "best" option...... if such a thing even exists.
We all seem to use our Vans differently, what works well for me ....... others hate, what works for them ......yet others dislike.

The OP is familiar with the Bay Window layout, he likes it, it works for him, he wants to replicate the Bay layout in HIS Vanagon.
Good for him, he KNOWS what he wants!

Encourage the guy as he designs the best cabinets for his needs and desires.

If I had built a kichen unit for my 86 Weekender, it would be behind the passenger seat as the Bay Windows were. I would keep the box like jump seat and folding table as they were.

Dave

Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:21 pm

dobryan wrote: To each their own, whatever works for you is fine. :D

x2

Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:45 pm

I have an '86 Weekender, and have always had admiration both for the Stalinist efficiency of this layout, as well as the layout of the full camper with the cabinet behind the driver seat.

The Weekender layout in concept sans passenger swivel, has many virtues that should not be overlooked though, before throwing the baby out with the bath water. That rear facing seat with storage underneath that could hold a porta potty. That discredited fridge that could provide added seating and a step to the upper bunk.

I would not sacrifice the rear facing seat for anything. In combination with a very large table that stores flush, three people can dine in such a way that they are sitting at cross angles to each other. Playing backgammon on route facing each other is better than side-by-side. All that with a larger bed, is why the Weekender trumps [sorry!] the full camper.

I think that the kitchen components should be considered individually. There is no need to make a big allocation of space for a stove. You usually don't need more than 2 elements and you can get a 2 element butane stove for $25 that you can put on the flip out table or take outside to cook weather permitting.

I own a restaurant and have had a pet peeve with bar fridges that spill huge amounts of cooled air every time you access them, and privide a useless freezer area. In a chest fridge design the cooled air pools at the bottom and tends to stay there when you open from the top. The Germans had it right the first time with the idea of the Weekender fridge in concept-30 years on an ARB or other may be used to replace it for efficiency and space. On tracks the can still allow for the use of a swivel on the passenger side.

If you don't need propane for the stove the justification for a underslung propane tank rests on the need for a stationary heater. DJKeev is a little harsh on diesel bunk heaters. I have an Espar with the tank in the engine compartment. I think it holds about 8 litres. It sips fuel. There is no smell. You can buy refined diesel [kerosene] anywhere all year long. You abandon that ritual of refilling at a gas station when it is 20 below.

I vote for keeping the Weekender close to its original conception. Add the swivel, upgrade the cooler to something stronger and sitable and you have comfortable sitting for 4 to 5 with little sacrifice. The mock up provided sacrifices personal interaction for cabinetry, which would only be justified if you could have it so that it could be added in and taken out at will.

However a sink system with stowed water would still be the tops.

Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:54 pm

djkeev wrote: ?Waldo? wrote: djkeev wrote: I too cut my teeth on a Bay Window Westy.

It had the stove assembly just inside the sliding door. It is traditional, I completely see why you chose this layout, it works.

Yes, it is traditional and it works, but neither of those are advantages over a single cabinet setup behind the driver which is also traditional and works but moreover leaves a more open and ergonomic layout.

I also currently own an Adventurewagen and have plans to ditch the Adventurewagen split cabinet setup and make a custom single kitchen cabinet behind the driver. I cannot see any advantages to the split cabinets and see distinct advantages to the single cabinet behind the driver.

What advantages do you see to splitting the cabinets?

Never said it was the "best" option...... if such a thing even exists.
We all seem to use our Vans differently, what works well for me ....... others hate, what works for them ......yet others dislike.

The OP is familiar with the Bay Window layout, he likes it, it works for him, he wants to replicate the Bay layout in HIS Vanagon.
Good for him, he KNOWS what he wants!

Encourage the guy as he designs the best cabinets for his needs and desires.

If I had built a kichen unit for my 86 Weekender, it would be behind the passenger seat as the Bay Windows were. I would keep the box like jump seat and folding table as they were.

Dave

You initially appeared to be replying to my post where I was specifically asking for advantages to the split cabinet design. You did not offer any advantages. I figured I would inquire further because I am SPECIFICALLY INTERESTED in knowing if there are advantages to the split cabinet design that I am not aware of.

Your last response seems to take issue with my inquiry as though I'm not 'encouraging' the OP properly. I'm not making any attempt to either encourage or discourage the OP. I offered my initial experience and preference in an attempt to be helpful and assist in the OP's educated decision making process. I honestly and literally could not care less what design the OP uses in their own camper. It's borderline insulting to the OP to assume they need encouragement and borderline insulting to me (and decidedly wrong) to assume that I care what they do. To each their own goes without saying.

Again, my last two posts in this thread have been specifically to inquire if there are any advantages to the split cabinet design that I am not aware of because, as I mentioned, I am planning on ripping out the split cabinets of my Adventurewagen unless there is some advantage to the design that I have not seen. I am authentically interested in the WHY of the split cabinet design because of my own self interest in my own cabinet design process. Again, neither attempting to encourage or discourage, just authentically seeking information in order to make my own informed decision on my own project. Is any of that in any way unclear?

Back to my own pertinent question that fits with the topic at hand, and is offered without any attempt to encourage, dissuade, or judge anyone else's cabinet design choice......... what advantages do you see to the split cabinet design over the single cabinet behind the driver's seat?

Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:03 pm

Ok, as I mentioned, I wouldn't lose the seat or the table so obviously I see no advantage to the split kitchen setup.

I also (after a bit of use) abandoned the idea of a built in kitchen unit too.
I got a Truck Fridge Chest behind the passenger seat and a simple propane stove.

I discovered no need for a built in kitchen of any sort. The Weekender is a great layout that seats a lot of people, provides ample space for cargo and is about perfect as it is.
Of course I had the older rear facing seat with massive storage under the cushion.

Dave

Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:16 pm

One advantage of the two cabinet design is that if it's designed accordingly the individual cabinets can be removed from the van for hauling or for moving the kitchen outside of the van in camp. Of course, this could also apply to a kitchen on the driver's side but it may be easier to do with the two-sided (slider-blocking) design.

The slider-side cabinet can also allow someone to do food prep outside the van the kitchen while someone else works inside the van, i.e. it can become a two person kitchen. The best example I know of for this is what Sportsmobile puts on the swing out door for the Econolines (a box attached to the swing out door that moves to the outside of the van and can also be removed).

If the box behind the passenger seat was put on drawer slides it could be as simple as sliding the box to the outside of the van and regaining space inside of the van.

I'm sure there are a few others.

A key is to outline design criteria and priorities such as maximizing camping potential, multi-van potential, etc. Our OP mentioned some of them in the first post but this can also meander to discussions of other possibilities.