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Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:25 pm

curious to see what yall think hp would be for different engines sizes. i know theres a ton of variables but just say an average build , unless youve built and dynoed a specific engine then let us know what was in it.
how much hp could you expect from a 1649? or a 2276?
im really wondering about N/A but feel free to throw some turbo stuff in too

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:33 pm

theres already a thread for that
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993&start=180

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:35 pm

55hp and 150hp.

Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:56 pm

It depends on how persistent you are.....you can get 200 whp from a 1679 or 120 hp from a 2276.
Unless there is a dyno graph or 1/4 mile numbers it's just a crap shoot.

There are a couple of 1641cc turbos making 400 plus whp and have been since 2011 or earlier.

Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:03 pm

Average tune engines as follows:

1500=50hp
1600=60hp
1700=70hp
1800=80hp
1900=90hp
2000=100hp
2100=110hp
2200=120hp
2300=130hp

These engines are using stock type heads, non welded ports, 8:1 compression, 280* cam, dual carbs and header. These are common numbers for 'off the shelf' type builds costing $4K or less.

Higher states of tune (more $) can add 40-60hp to the above numbers. Poor tune/combo can subtract 20hp

Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:14 pm

AlteWagen wrote: Average tune engines as follows:

1500=50hp
1600=60hp
1700=70hp
1800=80hp
1900=90hp
2000=100hp
2100=110hp
2200=120hp
2300=130hp

These engines are using stock type heads, non welded ports, 8:1 compression, 280* cam, dual carbs and header. These are common numbers for 'off the shelf' type builds costing $4K or less.

Higher states of tune (more $) can add 40-60hp to the above numbers. Poor tune/combo can subtract 20hp

I've always estimated my 1835cc DP engine to have 80 hp, single Weber 40DCNF, stock cam, stock heads (except for opening for cylinders). I don't know where my number came from though. But it does run strong !

Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:24 pm

People over estimate the HP on the engines. Then where is it measured, at the flywheel or on the ground rear wheels. Big difference in HP. My one engine on the engine dyno was measured @ 60HP at the fly wheel. Same engine in the vehicle on the dyno is 48 HP at the wheels.
So if some one ask me I tell them 60 at the flywheel and 48 on the ground.
Ask yourself what am I planning to do with the motor.

Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:17 pm

A lot of this is RPM dependent, meaning, what RPMs do yo wish to achieve what HP/Torque?

I like to think for a street car around 5,000-5,500 RPMs HP for a street motor is intended to last.. More RPMs equals less run time typically.... RB

Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:38 pm

RailBoy wrote: A lot of this is RPM dependent, meaning, what RPMs do yo wish to achieve what HP/Torque? RB

...as elaborated by Bob Hoover below:

" ...and a common error is that HP is always relative to RPM. Saying an engine produces more or less horsepower is meaningless unless the other half of the equation is filled in. A longer stroke with stock jugs moves max torque down the rpm curve. The engine might produce more than stock horsepower but at a speed too low to be useful in your vehicle. It also works going the other direction.

Maximum horsepower as used by most manufacturers and all of the VW–specific magazines is largely a dimensionless quantity. Being able to produce 165 hp @ 6.500 rpm –– not all that difficult with a veedub –– can mean you have a pretty useless engine... if it’s bolted to a stock tranny.

A better approach is to rethink the problem. If you want to go fast you start at your anticipated max speed and work backwards, hoping to achieve that speed with the minimum rpm. What you need is a torque curve –– maximum efficiency –– that matches your gearing.

But a lot of folks don’t want to go fast, they simply want maximum acceleration."

Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:15 pm

But a lot of folks don’t want to go fast, they simply want maximum acceleration."

My first post on here but I can relate to this.

Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:37 pm

I love that statement!
While going fast is fun, it is impractical in the police state we live in. Pin me in the seat for a few seconds and that's exciting enough without attracting too much attention. Besides, it's much more surprising to beat a car light to light that you know you can't beat on the top end.

Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:52 pm

Always subtract 15% for all engines built in Orange County.

Anybody can build a 2276cc with 150 HP with all off the shelf Internet catalog parts.

Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:11 am

Puma, your missing the point by elevating the content of the context which I am trying to get across..

This is how many engines do you intend to go through for that HP? Meaning, if it is drag car, no big deal, most drag racers race for fun and have deep pockets thus just plan a few runs out of there engines. Were as Street Guys need reliable engines to get from point A to point B with out issues... And most street guys, well they are street guys for they do not have the expendable cash flow as Drag Guys trying for the most HP/RPMs for the "Seat of your Pants" Thrill.

So, lets say this for a comparison. 150HP engine will last longer than a 200 HP engine simply do to less friction do to the sticsion involved on parts, which is related to RPMs and Compression of the bigger builds.

Also, why does a VW Stroker engine usually only last up to around 100,000 miles if built right at the most? Well, at highway speed there RPMs are around 3,200-3,800 RPMs, twice that of most American Cars, thus if you equate the RPMs of the VW engine do to trans ratios, they get the same were and tear lets say on the crank and cam bearings in One Year as a American Car does over 2-3 years of mileage. Why, RPMs this delivered over time...

So yes, you can have a 176 HP 2180 @ 7,2000 RPMs, or better yet a fire breathing 190-210HP 2276 @ 7,200 RPMs, but most only last up to 15,000-20,000 Miles at most do to the constant Ultra High RPMs. And yes, I know people that tend to always use those RPMs if they have it, so they go through engines... But for me, my around 140 HP 2180 @ 5,500 RPMs lets say with a mid cam and rockers to have less valve train where, I hope to get 80,000-100,000 miles out of with just one Valve Job @ 50,000 or so miles... But top redline do to the components is 5,500 RPMs... And I am really happy with it for it is a street car that see's when I can do it, around 3-4 times a month of 300 Mile Road Trips a month on weekends, and yes, the 150 mile one way trips are fun with it for sure just as the return road trip...

And yea, bigger engines are nice, but deep pockets are needed. It is just a contrast of engines and there intended use.... RB

Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:21 am

Easiest way to start a war is to ask a question lacking specific details.

What oil should I use?

What's the best cam?

How much horsepower?

What carbs?

Better questions start with "why?"