TheSamba.com :: View topic - Type 4 002 Trans W/ Type 1 Engine: Which Clutch Kit?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:21 pm

As stated in the topic, I have a 002 Transaxle from a 74 bus mated to a type 1 upright engine in my 68 bus. I’ve been experiencing some chatter when engaging the clutch, which I plan on correcting.
Clutch kits are reasonably priced, and I have some shift linkage components I’ll be replacing when the engine is out, so I’d like to replace the clutch.
Kicker is, which clutch kit? I know the size of 200mm, what provisions should I be looking for?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:30 pm

That is the engine/transaxle combo I have in my sand rail. I just used the stock Bus 200 mm disc and pressure plate. No issues at all. Much lighter rig though, but I do have some wide rubber on the rear.

I suspect it's just time to renew a worn clutch. Or is your engine making some serious non stock power?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:48 pm

Throw out bearing is whining when engaging the clutch. The clutch has been installed used and remove on multiple engines. I’d like to replace it all so I can be worry free for thousands of miles.
I’m also pulling a good solid running engine with some oil leaks for a brand new 1600 dual port. Since the engine is going to be correct, I want to do the same for the rest of the components.

Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:55 am

While I agree a “stock” clutch/pp is all you need, there needs to be some clarification on which stock. A stock 68 Bus 200mm pressure plate isn’t going to work with a 74 trans, and a stock 74 Bus clutch/pp isn’t 200mm. You need to get a 200mm pressure plate that works with the 74 trans. A Bus 68 trans would use an early throwout bearing, and a pp with a collar for the bearing to center on. The 74 trans would have a late bearing without the collar on the pp. If you’re wanting to order a “stock” clutch set up with the bearing/clutch/pp, get a Sachs one for a 74 Beetle, KF224-01. That will have a 200mm spring centered clutch for your 68 engine, and a 200mm pp that will mate to your 74 trans. Another thing to check for chatter is the clutch cable Bowden tube that mounts to the side of the trans. If it’s worn, or coming apart so it no longer has much of a bend, that will cause a chatter. Also the common sense things like worn engine/trans mounts.

Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:01 am

It's about 8 years since I put mine together, don't remember the details for sure but I do know that it is a stock '69 Bus clutch disc and pressure plate. I do recall changing throw out bearing and the related release shaft. Which one I used I'm not sure.

Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:03 am

Thank you so much for the clarification. Things can get a bit confusing, and though I mess with these things everyday, I certainly don't know everything.
I'm still downloading, 13%...

Happy New Year

Sam

Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:19 am

oprn wrote: It's about 8 years since I put mine together, don't remember the details for sure but I do know that it is a stock '69 Bus clutch disc and pressure plate. I do recall changing throw out bearing and the related release shaft. Which one I used I'm not sure.

This is the great thing about VW stuff, and the terrible thing about VW stuff. There are lots of non-original parts that can be interchanged, or made to work by altering/changing a component they’re being used with. When you go to replace the stuff when it’s worn out years down the road, you don’t always remember why it’s “this” part, and from where it originated from. :wink:

Another thing for the op to think of, document the clutch kit you’re getting in a glove box logbook so you realize it’s not an actual Bus part for future reference.

Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:23 am

I think I just put the cross shaft from the '69 transaxle into the '74 transaxle but again that was a while back.

Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:42 am

After thinking about oprn’s replies, there’s another wrench that can be thrown into the mix. The bellhousings on 002 Bus transaxles can be interchanged, so if the bellhousing isn’t the factory one on the trans, it could have either pressure plate. How about this....

Early bearing without the guide sleeve.....

Goes with early pressure plate.

Late throwout bearing with the guide sleeve....

Goes with late pressure plate.

Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:24 pm

Here is the only picture of the bellhousing I have from before the engine installed. Of course I cleaned up it prior to buttoning up, but I was cheap and didn’t replace the throw out bearing at the time, which needed it.

Looking at things there, the input shaft looks different. Perhaps it’s the angle?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:40 pm

That’s the later style bearing.

Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:31 pm

gkeeton@zbzoom.net wrote: That’s the later style bearing.
As in? The 74 Beetle option you mentioned above?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:46 pm

Yes, you would want the Sachs KF224-01 clutch kit that would have a spring center disc, late throwout bearing, and late pressure plate for a 74 Beetle.

Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:48 am

couple years ago i built a trail buggy with a type 4 and an 002 that was for a type 2 upright. i used a 228 mm flywheel and i mustve had that engine on & off a dozen times clearancing the bellhousing. with the flywheel and trans combo you couldnt stall the engine if you wanted too, heh heh

gkeeton is right about documenting, esp if your memory is as bad i mine. i usually do build sheets on evey one i do now

Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:39 pm

So I have another question regarding an 002 paired with a type 1 (1600) engine.
I went ahead and ordered the linked clutch kit KF224-01 from Autohaus AZ. Clutch and pressure plate have been installed onto new engine. I’m holding off on installing the throwout bearing until I decide which transmission to overhaul.

My question:
I have a choice between two transmissions to pair with the engine. Both 002’s.
First, a “CK’ 3-rib.
Second, a “CM” 5-rib.
Both of these were geared for the type 4 motor, but would I see any difference in drivability between the two? I did notice that with the 1835 engine (paired with the 5-rib) I spent a lot of time in 3rd gear. Would I see better gearing paired to the 1600 using the 3-rib?

Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:35 pm

The 3-rib will have a 5.37/5.42 ring & pinion, and the 5-rib will have a higher 4.86.

Is “spending time in 3rd gear” because the engine has trouble pulling 4th, or that’s simply the speed you cruise most in? I would think the 1835 should pull the higher r&p, and you would have a little nicer cruising rpm/speed.

Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:39 pm

The 1835 has been pulled for another project. There is a brand new 1600 dual port going in.

Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:58 pm

Might also may sure you have the right length of input shaft sticking out. The Type 4 has a longer nose to it.

The 5 rib should have 002 gears welded from the factory. The 3 ribs could have either 113 or 002 gears from the factory depending on its year. Actually both have been probably gone through at some point in time. I would go with the 5 rib to keep the 3-4 spacing tighter if you have the motor to pull first good.

Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:20 pm

Yeah, the 1600 would work better with the lower geared 3-rib imo.

Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:10 pm

Would I see any difference in drivability between the two? The benefit would be if I swapped the 5-rib for the 3-rib, I could put the 5-rib with a 2L which I’m getting the 3-rib from, which I would believe to be a better transmission for the 2L type 4?
If one can’t tell, I can read the gearing numbers per gear on the data sheets no problem. I’ve researched the numbers. The difficulty I’m having is understanding what’s the benefit of lower 3rd/4th or higher for my application.