TheSamba.com :: View topic - Are German Bosch blue ignition coils worth the extra expense ?

Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:29 am

:?: Hello everyone. I hope my knowledge will increase quickly, so I can free-up the forum from my seemingly non-stop questions :? . And hopefully I will be able to help new to beetle enthusiasts in due time.

But today I have yet anouther question. Having viewed the engines in Beetles long before buying one, and even more so now that I am an avid VW
Beetle owner, I have very often noticed the blue Bosch ignition coils on a great many air-cooled VW’s. Are there any reasons why this ( German Bosch ) blue coil is the common choice ? Do they last longer than a lower priced unit...or do they provide a greater spark ( this seems likely to me ) to the plugs ? In short, are they worth the extra expense, and why/why not. Since I will be assembling
a travelling repair kit for my beetle, I can always use the ( black coloured ) existing coil as a known to be good spare to keep in my repair kit.

I appreciate any feedback...especially info based on recognized electrical
theory.
Best regards and happy trails all,
Darren.

Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:17 am

I can not comment on non-German coils but the standard German coil will last at least 20 years with a points ignition system and you do not do anything stupid like leaving the ignition system turned on with the engine stationary for an extended period of time.
Since I converted to electronic ignition replacing points with a magnetronic system in about 1988, I have used a Bosch GT40T coil since. Prior to that I had the original VW coil in the car from 1968.

Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:39 am

the blue does send more voltage to the plugs . since my experience with vw's since 1980 I may of seen 2 coils go bad one was a 40 year old black one and one blue one if memory serves . it is pretty rare. my theory why you see so many blue one's is folks think they are doing an upgrade . or they are replacing the coil because they think it went bad only to find out that was not the problem. and figured an upgrade was a good idea while they where there. I've done it. I have never noticed a difference in performance /mileage or anything.
if you want to keep a spare in your traveling kit find a known good coil to bring with ya.i the unlikely event it fails. that is what I do .my 2cents
Steve

Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:45 am

Not all Bosch Blue coils are made in Germany or are the same.

Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:47 am

AFAIK they were never sold at the Dealer as a genuine replacement part.

However Bosch Blue coils have long been sold in the aftermarket as a "hop-up" item, sometimes being paired with a 010 or 009 mechanical advance dist.
This is what I beleive to be the reason they are so common.
If you can find an old ad for them it might show specs about their increased capacity.

Just so you know the old original Made in Germany versions had light brown tops.
The new/current versions (don't know where they're made) have a black top and are under question for their reliability and performance.

Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:51 am

Original Scream Kit sold by Bosch.

Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:09 am

Finding the “good” Bosch blue coil is more important than whether it’s German, or Brazilian. The Bosch #00012 should be a blue body coil, red/yellow Bosch sticker, and a zinc silver plated bracket that is open on the ends so that it can be slipped under the mounting bolts without removing them.

There are “Bosch blue coils” that have;

- a blue body with a silver Bosch sticker with the clamp holes closed
- a blue body with Bosch info screen printed/stamped in white lettering
- a silver body with Bosch info screen printed/stamped in blue

These are of a lesser quality from the ones above. I’ve never had a blue coil outright fail in 31 years, 10 of which we’re working full time at an Aircooled VW shop. Have they “worn out” and produced a poor spark, sure, but never outright not been able to run the engine.

Glenn Ring can correct me, but I don’t think Bosch blue coils have been produced in Germany for at least 20 years. Is there a difference between the modern Brazilian version, and the German version, possibly. Will you notice a difference in the engine drive ability from a $60 Brazilian coil to a $200-$300 NOS German coil, doubtful.

With the way Bosch is discontinuing stuff for Aircooled VW’s, most have already moved on to the “blue coil” by Beru, or Bremi that seem to have no issues taking our money, and are still producing parts.

Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:22 am

[email protected] wrote: Glenn Ring can correct me, but I don’t think Bosch blue coils have been produced in Germany for at least 20 years. Is there a difference between the modern Brazilian version, and the German version, possibly. Will you notice a difference in the engine drive ability from a $60 Brazilian coil to a $200-$300 NOS German coil, doubtful.

Germany >>---> Spain >>---> Brazil.

There are also ones made in Mexico.

Non-Bosch are made in Canada and China.

I had a Brazilian one for years and only replaced it with a German one because I got it cheap and I can say I have a German coil. Brazilian ones are fine.

Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:55 am

Today the Pertronix flamethrower coils are better and cheaper then a Bosch Blue coil. The people that disagree are completely stuck in the old school nostalgia of the past believing that only German made parts can be used on a VW. Another thing about the Pertronix coils is if you like chrome then get the chrome.

Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:11 am

vwracerdave wrote: Today the Pertronix flamethrower coils are better and cheaper then a Bosch Blue coil. The people that disagree are completely stuck in the old school nostalgia of the past believing that only German made parts can be used on a VW. Another thing about the Pertronix coils is if you like chrome then get the chrome.

I used to think that as well until I had a friend at his shop install two Pertronix coils, and have each one fail within 24 hours. They were mounted in the same manor as a stock VW one in the angled location with the wire output on the bottom. After calling Pertronix to ask why they failed, he was told you can’t mount the oil filled coils in that position. ???? Apparently the oil filled coils need to be mounted with the wire output facing up, or horizontally. If you want a coil you need to mount in the exact position of the factory VW one, you need one of their epoxy filled coils. I’ve only ever used a Pertronix coil on an engine I got in a Beetle, and never had an issue, but it was mounted horizontally.

Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:46 pm

I don't know what kind of coil [black] is on my bug but it's been there coming up on 28 years now, I painted it blue and put on some new Bosch stickers and it run's a lot better :shock: . I got the blue rattle can paint from home depot. :lol:
I still run points on my bug, the electronic ignition is a joke.

I do have fuel hose clamps on now. :wink:

Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:03 pm

I have blue Bosch coils on both my 1970 and 1971, but bought those coils over 40 years ago each. So I do not remember why; maybe they came with my German 009 distributors, which came from CB.

Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:01 pm

I just bought a Pertronix Flamethrower that is epoxy filled. 3 Ohm
Part #40611

Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:16 pm

Since ya'll hit on the Petronix Epoxy Flame Thrower Coil, I run one with Petronix Plug Wires plus a Pertronix Electionic Ignition... This is in a 2180 w/Bosch 010..

No issues yet, and been over 3,500 miles... RB

Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:33 pm

lboos wrote:
Please put some clamps on that fuel filter.

Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:58 pm

Glenn wrote: lboos wrote:
Please put some clamps on that fuel filter.

You missed the part under the pic....

lboos wrote: I do have fuel hose clamps on now. :wink:

Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:02 pm

Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:11 pm

According to ancient legends

the standard coil had 80-1 turns ratio
the blue coil has 100-1
They were made in Germany and filled with PCB oil which is toxic but made them immortal.

What modern equivalent is closest to each? I have no idea.
IMO.... Go old, or go new. Don't try to copy the past.

Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:52 pm

[email protected] wrote: vwracerdave wrote: Today the Pertronix flamethrower coils are better and cheaper then a Bosch Blue coil. The people that disagree are completely stuck in the old school nostalgia of the past believing that only German made parts can be used on a VW. Another thing about the Pertronix coils is if you like chrome then get the chrome.

I used to think that as well until I had a friend at his shop install two Pertronix coils, and have each one fail within 24 hours. They were mounted in the same manor as a stock VW one in the angled location with the wire output on the bottom. After calling Pertronix to ask why they failed, he was told you can’t mount the oil filled coils in that position. ???? Apparently the oil filled coils need to be mounted with the wire output facing up, or horizontally. If you want a coil you need to mount in the exact position of the factory VW one, you need one of their epoxy filled coils. I’ve only ever used a Pertronix coil on an engine I got in a Beetle, and never had an issue, but it was mounted horizontally.

I had a new Pertronix Flamethrower coil fail after 6 months in 2012. The Pertronix SVDA distributor's vacuum can failed about 6 months after that, and the mechanical advance by itself was all over the place and impossible to properly time as a dumbed-down 009. I've also had the Pertronix ignition module fail while driving, not because I left the ignition on w/the car turned off. I have not since and will never buy a Pertronix product again as long as I work on my own Bugs.

Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:20 pm

modok wrote: According to ancient legends

the standard coil had 80-1 turns ratio
the blue coil has 100-1
They were made in Germany and filled with PCB oil which is toxic but made them immortal.

What modern equivalent is closest to each? I have no idea.
IMO.... Go old, or go new. Don't try to copy the past.

(a) I had read elsewhere that Bob Hoover said that Black and Blue coils were essentially the same
(b) The black coils were epoxy filled I thought. There are some blue coils that are oil filled. But are all blue coils oil filled? If so, do they have to be mounted upright?