TheSamba.com :: View topic - Kadrons too loud for daily driver, solutions?

Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:14 pm

Hey guys,

I have a 68 Westfalia, 1835 dual kads bigger heads, engle 100 cam. I have been starting to do a lot more traveling with this rig and the drone from the exhaust and the dual kads is starting to drive me and the lady crazy.

Im open to suggestions on what would be the quietest exhaust set up. From my searches, it looks to be the hideaway, but the search results were a little dated, so maybe there is something out there that is better?

also,

what about plumbing the kads into one filter housing? I was thinking using something like this ?
https://www.amazon.com/G042544-Donaldson-Original-...B015YRNNUC

but it looks like it wouldn't provide the CFM's needed for the Kads?

Do you guys have any suggestions? maybe some ideas from people with the buggies that are trying to avoid overloading their elements with dust?

Thanks as always!
Ross

Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:58 am

Ear plugs😉

Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:21 am

Insulate the firewall and rear parcel shelf. What do you have for a muffler? Does it's outlet go back past the bumper?

Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:21 am

There is nothing readily available wrt sound reduction with Kadrons.
That said I have seen people create a center intake out of sewer pvc tubes and a tractor tube filter, some similar, but with a little more finish, modified 30 hp cleaner housings and even late model 1200 aircleaner housings. (Mutural for all the stock cleaner modifications are that they need to be converted to paper or K&N style filters or the cleaner killed all power above 4000 rpm.)

I agree that a layer of Dynamat and a top layer of Dynaliner on the roof in the engine compartement plus insulating the rear pillars and the rear hatch makes a huge difference with sound transfer. Quieting down the exhaust of course helps too. One of the tricks are to extend the muffler outlet so that it exits about 1" after the bumper. That alone decreases resonance trememdeusly.

I have a colleague that have a mint ´59 split bus with a large dual carbed engine in it. He went a little ballistic and basicly covered the inside of the car with Dynamat and dynaliner where it made sense. Down the road you practicly do not hear the engine, only wheel and wind noise. Of course you can hear the carbs when you floor it, but it is not annoying.

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:37 am

oprn wrote: Insulate the firewall and rear parcel shelf. What do you have for a muffler? Does it's outlet go back past the bumper?

I have insulated the firewall, under the seat..pretty much the whole rear part of the bus. I have a bunch of leftover sound deadner that I could find a place for.

I have a cheapo empi single quiet pack. It does not extend past the bumper. Im getting ready to change that whole exhaust set up, So im open to suggestions on what I should invest in.

Thanks

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:41 am

I put two oil-bath air filters, one on each kad.. It cost me power, but the silence was golden.

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:55 am

Alstrup wrote: There is nothing readily available wrt sound reduction with Kadrons.
That said I have seen people create a center intake out of sewer pvc tubes and a tractor tube filter, some similar, but with a little more finish, modified 30 hp cleaner housings and even late model 1200 aircleaner housings. (Mutural for all the stock cleaner modifications are that they need to be converted to paper or K&N style filters or the cleaner killed all power above 4000 rpm.)

I agree that a layer of Dynamat and a top layer of Dynaliner on the roof in the engine compartement plus insulating the rear pillars and the rear hatch makes a huge difference with sound transfer. Quieting down the exhaust of course helps too. One of the tricks are to extend the muffler outlet so that it exits about 1" after the bumper. That alone decreases resonance trememdeusly.

I have a colleague that have a mint ´59 split bus with a large dual carbed engine in it. He went a little ballistic and basicly covered the inside of the car with Dynamat and dynaliner where it made sense. Down the road you practicly do not hear the engine, only wheel and wind noise. Of course you can hear the carbs when you floor it, but it is not annoying.

Thanks for your reply. I will start drawing something up to possibly get the kads plumbed into a airbox or tractor. I was thinking maybe going to the junk yard and seeing what type of air intakes i could find, pretty much a box that I could mount above the battery and plumb to it. That would probably be sufficient and would not restrict flow.

Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:06 am

use sound deadener.. I've used ballistix matting

Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:10 am

FreeBug wrote: I put two oil-bath air filters, one on each kad.. It cost me power, but the silence was golden.

where did you find the oil bath cleaners?

Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:17 am

vwroamer wrote: FreeBug wrote: I put two oil-bath air filters, one on each kad.. It cost me power, but the silence was golden.

where did you find the oil bath cleaners?

At first, 1200 filters, and then stepped up to industrial engine filters, they're bigger. I couldn't fit them in the beetle, but they're fine in a bus.

Check around here before you buy anything....my ideas are often wrong.

Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:01 am

Open-element cleaners are noisy.
More sound insulation is unlikely to help much.

If you look at the Porsche 356 or 912 they had little individual air filter housings with a snorkel.

Anything you can do to enclose the intake will help a lot.

You might find some old small carbureted car at the junkyard and get a couple of air filter housings to modify.

There was also the stock air filter housing on the 411/412 or early carbed bus that might work with a bit of modification.

Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:17 am

not sure if it was my imagination but I had a set of Kdogs once that were SUPER loud. They were also jetted SUPER rich (65/175). After I rejetted (52/127) it seemed a lot snappier AND not as loud. I had stacks on them so had to use a taller filter without the original perforated filter guard (which robs power anyway).

To insulate the engine compartment I used cheapo home depot foil bubble wrap which worked great on keeping the heat out. I extended the foil along with some tar deadener down under the seat and it reduced noise quite a bit.

Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:36 am

Clatter wrote:
More sound insulation is unlikely to help much.

If so, you are using the wrong insulation for the wave length. That´s why the more expensive products generally work better. They have a wider wave length efiiciency window.

Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:36 am

I agree with Alstrup wave lengths are something most people do not think about. Radio waves are a good example, CB radio was 26 mz, the the full length antenna was 36 feet vs a cell phone which is very high frequency. It's antenna is inches. CB long range , Cell short range that is whey they need towers, just to cover their cell area.

Is your bus empty --- " Empty Barrels make the most sound ".

YOu may even have parts of the bus that is a sympitatic receiver of the frequency and transmitting it.

Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:54 am

Quote: Bus air cleaner - like this one! https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2365765

Quote: I have a cheapo empi single quiet pack. It does not extend past the bumper Does the tip of the muffler have a straight pipe, or is it flared? If straight, then you can find a 1 foot long piece of pipe that fits snugly over the muffler tip and use a hose clamp to hold it in place "for now". You can slide the pipe rearwards to extend the outlet to beyond the bumper. Experiment with different pipe positions if the noise is reduced. See if a chromed home sink/wash basin drain will fit over the muffler tip, or buy a steel muffler section from the muffler pipe adapter rack at a FLAPS. Either one is only a few $ outlay.

Maybe consider a heat-resistant header wrap? Though consensus is that the wrap retains moisture from condensation (header cooling down after a drive) so that it promotes rust on the outer surface of the metal header pipes.

A few months ago I bought two 2 x 3' house entry floor mats at home center that are approx. 1" thick and made of recycled rubber. Each one weighs about 3 lbs. They were on sale for about $8.00. I was going to make some cheap floor mats for my Beetle with them. If you find one, you can place it on top of the engine compartment floor on your bus. The weight helps alot to dampen noise pulsations. Or buy two of them and place them next to each other to cover the entire floor area above the engine, extending down along the front face of the body hump for additional sound dampening.

Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:35 pm

Rome you stole my rubber mat over stainless steel idea!! Kidding, it works great.

Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:54 pm

I'm sure you could make something like this work, if you want to 3D print them.
the base plate would have to be modified for the single throat of the kads

https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/various/weber-40-44-idf-air-intake-silencer

some good reading, dynamat type products aren't a cure-all for sound : https://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:37 pm

W1K1 wrote:
some good reading, dynamat type products aren't a cure-all for sound : https://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/
No. But if you mix the products in the right combinations you can come a long way. There are other brands on the market too. The Russian developed Silent coat is one. But the Dynamat tar products beats just about everything I have come across so far.

Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:47 pm

Take a photo of your engine compartment and muffler/header set up for us.

Definately run the exhaust pipe out past the back bumper. I did this on my car with a Dynomax and it made a huge difference. If your exhaust is old there may be a hole somewhere that you have not noticed yet. If so weld it up!

Then there is induction noise which you are considering fabing some sort of air intake box.

Finally it is a bus with the engine compartment kind of enclosed with the passenger compartment so the tin can echo scenario comes into place. Use well placed sound deadener. You may have to try different combinations.

You can get a db meter cheap off of ebay or I believe there are ap's out there so you can test the result of each change.

Going to take a bit of trial and error.

Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:03 pm

[quote="74 Thing"]Take a photo of your engine compartment and muffler/header set up for us.

Definately run the exhaust pipe out past the back bumper. I did this on my car with a Dynomax and it made a huge difference. If your exhaust is old there may be a hole somewhere that you have not noticed yet. If so weld it up!

Then there is induction noise which you are considering fabing some sort of air intake box.

Finally it is a bus with the engine compartment kind of enclosed with the passenger compartment so the tin can echo scenario comes into place. Use well placed sound deadener. You may have to try different combinations.

You can get a db meter cheap off of ebay or I believe there are ap's out there so you can test the result of each change.....................................................................................................................................................................................................................whats the old saying if its too loud your too old lol i love the sound of a glass packed muffler lol just joking like the others have talked about sound deading is the best way to go any auto parts store should sell it . i go to summit racing i know they have it spencerfvee