TheSamba.com :: View topic

Thu Dec 23, 2021 6:13 am

I just read a blurb about Tesla selling new 2021 demo vehicles but they have 2017 batteries in them.

Because of the batteries age they put in this disclaimer…….

“This vehicle was built with a battery pack manufactured as early as 2017. While this pack was brand new when the vehicle was built, the cells have reduced capacity due to their age and you can expect up to 12% reduction in range from current production specifications.”

Anyway, what I find interesting isn't these particular cars being sold but the fact that current electric cars will progressively go shorter and shorter distances as they age!

Just like your aging cell phone will no longer make it through a full day of use.

You may no longer make it to work and home in your not new electric vehicle without stopping for a charge along the way.

Dave

Thu Dec 23, 2021 6:34 am

So they will get 300 miles per charge instead of 350 miles per charge? Your 300+ miles per day commute must be a lot of fun.

Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:09 am

Well now, this is an interesting topic.
I've not searched yet, but curious to see the life expectancy
In terms of miles or years the batteries and the electric motors.
Today's technology and longevity of ice's are pretty impressive with proper maintenance.
Technology in lubricants be it petroleum or synthetic industry have come a long way
in the last 20+years have helped to make that possible..imo
As for the EV batteries, do the different battery manufacturers rate their
battery longevity based on years, duty cycles ? Ice's give for the most part give
100% with good maintenance until a moving part fails then replace parts
and move on.
It appears to this old guy that they better keep some sort of ice as a failsafe
Mechanism at least for the short term.
Good morning Ya'll..

Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:11 am

Q-Dog wrote: So they will get 300 miles per charge instead of 350 miles per charge? Your 300+ miles per day commute must be a lot of fun.

Oh, I think that if these batteries follow the age old rechargeable battery pattern, (and Tesla indicates that they are following this pattern) they will be cast aside along with the old 9volt Makita drills that no longer hold any charge whatsoever.

Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:38 am

Batteries in a Prius I had were still working fine @ 300k. The entire pack is available from multiple sources from 5 to 800 dollars used. I’m seeing lots more Tesla cars on the road, maybe the real problem is battery disposal when they are completely spent. I propose low level dumping off the back of a C130 over North Korea.

Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:54 am

djkeev wrote: Q-Dog wrote: So they will get 300 miles per charge instead of 350 miles per charge? Your 300+ miles per day commute must be a lot of fun.

Oh, I think that if these batteries follow the age old rechargeable battery pattern, (and Tesla indicates that they are following this pattern) they will be cast aside along with the old 9volt Makita drills that no longer hold any charge whatsoever.

Yes they will lose capacity with age and use. ALL batteries do. The battery in our Honda hybrid is 10 years old and probably degraded some, but fuel mileage and performance on the car hasn't changed so I don't even think about it.

Tesla warranty for a new vehicle battery is 8 years or 100,000 miles (or more depending on model) whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of battery capacity over the warranty period.

Thu Dec 23, 2021 10:43 am

Within the next few years I expect Discount Tire or some place similar will figure out how to do battery swaps as easily as our air cooled flat 4's.
Maybe set up something similar to propane cylinder exchanges.

Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:35 pm

bwahahahahaha :lol:

https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/tesla-owner-blows-up-model-s-dynamite-battery-replacement/

Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:49 pm

My 4 year old cell phone still has over 50% battery left after a days use.

But the battery in my wife's 3.5 year old Subaru suddenly died.

So i guess it's just a crap shoot.

Thu Dec 23, 2021 5:29 pm

skills@eurocarsplus wrote: bwahahahahaha :lol:

https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/tesla-owner-blows-up-model-s-dynamite-battery-replacement/

The views of this Utube video will likely pay for a brand new Tesla. :wink:

Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:08 pm

Glenn wrote:

But the battery in my wife's 3.5 year old Subaru suddenly died.

So i guess it's just a crap shoot.

don't even get me started on the lifespan of batteries over the past 5-7 years. just had a year old battery go tits up in one of my cars that i spent DAYS thinking i had a parasitic draw issue with only to find out the battery was falling on it's ass

i use to be a dyed in the wool Interstate guy until their batteries got very expensive and the quality slipped. now i just tell people buy the biggest cheapest battery that will fit in the hole they can find because they are all trash (except for euro's that run AGM or 'exotic' batteries that need to be married to the car electronically for them to work)

Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:03 am

Mot batteries sold in USA are manufactured by one company: Johnson Controls/Clarios. This includes Interstate, Autozone, Walmart O'Reilly, Costco....

Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:25 am

So people know going into this that batteries don’t last forever, why is anyone bitching about that ? The example of blowing up a car because you cannot fix is irrational move by a rich prick to garner attention. A publicity stunt or maybe just clickbait BS. The first clue is asking Tesla for help, did he try the breakers ?

All that aside when economies of scale take over cost will come down. As for lead acid batteries I replace them all working or not at 60 months. 😂

Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:34 am

quote Q dog - "Yes they will lose capacity with age and use."

that's true of people too in my experience :wink:

Fri Dec 24, 2021 8:41 am

finster, now that hurts 😢

Fri Dec 24, 2021 11:16 am

Cusser wrote: Mot batteries sold in USA are manufactured by one company: Johnson Controls/Clarios. This includes Interstate, Autozone, Walmart O'Reilly, Costco....

i know that. i think exide is the only "stand alone" battery mfgr these days (they are in PA too)

the beginning of the end was when i was replacing a H8 battery some years ago and as i was handing the core over to the interstate guy i said to him "the battery i'm giving you is heavier than the one you're giving me"

he smiled....he knew they were cheaping out on the materials. i'm lucky to get 3 or so year out of a battery these days whe i use to get 5-7 no problem

Zundfolge1432 wrote: So people know going into this that batteries don’t last forever, why is anyone bitching about that ? The example of blowing up a car because you cannot fix is irrational move by a rich prick to garner attention. A publicity stunt or maybe just clickbait BS. The first clue is asking Tesla for help, did he try the breakers ?

have you bought a part for any car that is 1-8 years old from a junk yard? any real dismantler is typically 1/2 of retail for a used part, just the way it is.

the other known issue with tesla is they don't let you use all the features of the car unless they "recertify" it after a repair, and i think that service is 6-10k alone. so, lets say a used battery is 10k, then they have to check it over....assuming it passes their tests you're in it for 16k on the low end

a tesla is the most expensive bic lighter you can buy.

Fri Dec 24, 2021 12:00 pm

skills@eurocarsplus wrote: Cusser wrote: Mot batteries sold in USA are manufactured by one company: Johnson Controls/Clarios. This includes Interstate, Autozone, Walmart O'Reilly, Costco....

i know that. i think exide is the only "stand alone" battery mfgr these days (they are in PA too)

the other known issue with tesla is they don't let you use all the features of the car unless they "recertify" it after a repair, and i think that service is 6-10k alone. so, lets say a used battery is 10k, then they have to check it over....assuming it passes their tests you're in it for 16k on the low end

a tesla is the most expensive bic lighter you can buy.

Yeah, that battery plant is but a few miles from me. Big local employer!

Buying a Tesla isn't unlike buying a home in a HOA neighborhood.
Sure you get to pay the bills and the taxes but it really isn't yours to do with as you wish.
The HOA controls what you can do to your home.
TESLA controls what you can do to your car.

They're both STUPID ways to live.

Dave

Fri Dec 24, 2021 12:58 pm

There are three suppliers of lead-acid batteries in the U.S.:

- Johnson Controls - I believe most of their manufacturing has been moved to Mexico...

- Exide - Not sure if they manufacture batteries any more for the North American market--their website suggests the name has been licensed to Battery Systems, who is a distributor, not a manufacturer

- East Penn - They list the Group 19L, 6V battery in their catalog under part numbers 319L and 901MF (commercial), under their Deka brand. They appear to be the only truly domestic manufacturer, as they are privately-owned.

Fri Dec 24, 2021 3:20 pm

janerick3 wrote: There are three suppliers of lead-acid batteries in the U.S.:

- Johnson Controls - I believe most of their manufacturing has been moved to Mexico...

- Exide - Not sure if they manufacture batteries any more for the North American market--their website suggests the name has been licensed to Battery Systems, who is a distributor, not a manufacturer

- East Penn - They list the Group 19L, 6V battery in their catalog under part numbers 319L and 901MF (commercial), under their Deka brand. They appear to be the only truly domestic manufacturer, as they are privately-owned.

I have a Deka battery in my 356. I guess Interstate doesn't make the size 19L units anymore. I've had it for about a year--so far, so good.

Fri Dec 24, 2021 3:32 pm

Jon Schmid wrote: janerick3 wrote: There are three suppliers of lead-acid batteries in the U.S.:

- Johnson Controls - I believe most of their manufacturing has been moved to Mexico...

- Exide - Not sure if they manufacture batteries any more for the North American market--their website suggests the name has been licensed to Battery Systems, who is a distributor, not a manufacturer

- East Penn - They list the Group 19L, 6V battery in their catalog under part numbers 319L and 901MF (commercial), under their Deka brand. They appear to be the only truly domestic manufacturer, as they are privately-owned.

I have a Deka battery in my 356. I guess Interstate doesn't make the size 19L units anymore. I've had it for about a year--so far, so good.
My last interstate lasted 11 years. I do use a Battery Tender when not in use.