TheSamba.com :: View topic - How did you lower your VW back in the day?

Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:31 pm

I was just wondering... Before all the torsion adjusters & new beams came out. How did you lower your VW? I saw a few people use short shocks. But I remember back in the day people would pull the leaves out, cut them, and then put them back in. I don't exactly understand the concept of it all. But it definitely lowered it & was very drivable. I even saw a few guys pull leaves out and simply do away with them. Again, it definitely lowered it. But one would think it had to be somewhat of a sloppy ride correct? So what was the "correct way" to lower the front back then?

Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:33 pm

Dropped spindles

Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:46 pm

Select-a-drop was a popular choice, but didn't go that direction.

Sway-away beam adjusters were the better alternative, but those cost money that we didn't have. WAIT! I REMEMBER NOW! I did get some for my birthday!

My dad and I pulled the front beam out of my '67, used a pipe cutter and cut out sections of both beams and welded the adjusters in...the wrong way! Meaning it would raise the front end, contemplated the baja build instead for a few minutes, but really wanted the Cal Look...I mean Santa Cruz...come on!

We ended up drilling another hole, threading it and putting the center grub screw back in, dropping the front end about 5 1/2". The rear end was already drooping so the bug looked pretty good:

The front sway bar sat at about 1-2" off the ground, I remember driving and hitting a sewer cap on a crowned road and knocking the right lower arm out about an inch...it was low.

Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:11 pm

I just pulled one leaf from each tube. Rode nice, didnt bottom out, but not slammed. The rear looks high in the pic as I backed up to park. Real flat 6 fuchs with 195/50/15s

Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:25 am

Mine seems to have had the leaf spring grub screws removed, the collar allowed to rotate and then welded back in to position through the grub screw hole. Done about 5 out of the 19 previous owners ago, about 2001.

Quite soon it will have rotted so much on the horns, I will be buying a narrowed beam to replace it.

Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:42 am

My first lowering was with a sway bar/ "T" bracket kit they used to sell...

The "T" bolted to the bottom of the frame head and had a bolt that attached to a specially bent sway bar.
When you tightened the bolt , the sway bar would pull down and move the control arms, thus lowering the front end.

It made the car run a lot stiffer up front as well.

for the rear..always adjusted the torsion preload angle since day one...
But now, I'm doing torsion housing raises..

Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:15 am

Cut, re-clocked, and welded the center of the tubes. I usually had to do it twice.

Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:13 am

Pre- "68 VWs lower themselves.

Seriously. Fifty- plus year old torsion bars sack out. It's amazing how long they hang in there. Gravity eventually wins.

Do you have any idea how many sets of rear leaf springs you would have gone through by now with a '66 Nova? I'm guessing at least three sets even if the car is parked most of the time.

I usually run ball joint / swingaxle suspension ('66-'67) although there is a link / IRS setup in my future. My experience has been that replacement ball joint beams that replace my old beams due to rust are nosebleed high.

May so- called "restorers" never re- set the rear torsions. I don't care how many NOS parts you used, you didn't do a thorough job if you don't at least level the car.

purple rag wrote: I was just wondering... Before all the torsion adjusters & new beams came out. How did you lower your VW? I saw a few people use short shocks.

Shocks won't do it by themselves. Short shocks are intended to provide an acceptable ride with lowered suspension. Stock length shocks may bottom hard when used in a lowered car.

When you screw with the suspension you're disturbing a system that incorporates a lot of thought and engineering. The majority of suspension modifications be they VW, Honda or Subaru for example are for appearance without consideration of compromised handling.

Lowered Bugs are more likely to end up on their roofs than Bug within the stock range of suspension travel. You don't need to take my word for it. Just drop the back one notch and stick lowered spindles on the front. Then banzai a decreasing radius off- ramp. It might not even be intentional. You may simply be out on the Beltway tryin' to stay out of harm's way.

If you still need everything lower than everything else Mendeola manufactures some trick suspension products. Expect to spend around $3500 on the front end and $2500 out back.

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Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:32 am

Dusty1 wrote:
Lowered Bugs are more likely to end up on their roofs than Bug within the stock range of suspension travel.

I'm going to need some data to back that up, if you don't mind?

Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:55 am

Back in the day?

Front; pulled leaves, cut and weld, even tried the bolt-on version of the select-a-drop (yikes).

There were no dropped spindles "back in the day". For me that is mid '70s-mid '80s

Rear; reset the torsion bars.

Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:47 am

Vega Shocks on a BJ beam. Five minute job. :lol: :lol:

Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:18 am

vwtrey wrote: Dusty1 wrote:
Lowered Bugs are more likely to end up on their roofs than Bug within the stock range of suspension travel.

I'm going to need some data to back that up, if you don't mind?

Swingaxles do a "jack and tuck" thing.

VW knew their swingaxles ddi a "jack and tuck" thing. That's why '67 and '68 got Z- bars.

The mounts are there for the Z- bar through '73 for countries who still got swingaxles after we got IRS.

The mechanics of jack 'n' tuck:

Centrifugal force loads the outside wheels in a curve. There is more weight on the rear and more load on the outside in the corners. The weight transfer "tucks" the outside rear wheel in curves. The less preload on the torsions, the more the body wants to roll on the outside rear.

The inside wheel want to drop, that's your jack part.

A Z- bar or an old Empi style leaf spring sway bar helps plant the inside wheel. Without it the jack 'n' tuck thing may happen so fast it will make your head spin. Your head will spin because you may be upside- down at that point. Like I said,

Dusty1 wrote: Just drop the back one notch and stick lowered spindles on the front. Then banzai a decreasing radius off- ramp.

If you want a white paper on it lower your Bug and create your own data. You can figure it out in an empty parking lot, you can even figure it out on dirt. Toss your lowered Bug into a decreasing radius corner at an increasing speed. It will go over sooner or later.

Year ago I hit an early spring frost heave in my old '67. I wasn't going that fast but I destroyed my muffler and my one year only rear apron. I lifted it one click after that. Probably wouldn't have it any other way, now.

Rumor has it Greg Aronson of FAT Performance fame had the first Cal Look Bug circa 1970. He may have used a Select-a-Drop, for that matter he may have designed the Select-a-Drop.

I still have an NOS set of Jatech spindles and 135 Michelins I bought back when I thought lookin' good potentially upside- down was where it's at. :roll:

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Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:22 pm

My first bug came with one of those bolt on swaybar type lowering kits. It just forced the front end down and would sit crooked. Because the bolts were slowly pulling through the straps around the control arms.
Eventually did a cut and turn 3/8”.

Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:06 pm

I've seen the spare tire area full of scrap steel and sand bags. Stupid, yes, but also cheap. Hauling an extra few hundreds pounds around sure didn't help acceleration, man that thing was SLOW.

Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:58 pm

Cut and turn, weld. Costs nothing. better guess right tho :shock:

Sat Apr 16, 2022 6:57 am

Thanks to everyone who commented 👍

Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:24 am

Here's one more,, I had 3 fat girl friends :lol: ,, JK :wink:

Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:03 am

Step one, remove valve from front tire valve stem.
Step two, stand back and watch the magic happen.

Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:17 am

Dusty1 wrote: vwtrey wrote: Dusty1 wrote:
Lowered Bugs are more likely to end up on their roofs than Bug within the stock range of suspension travel.

I'm going to need some data to back that up, if you don't mind?

Swingaxles do a "jack and tuck" thing.

VW knew their swingaxles ddi a "jack and tuck" thing. That's why '67 and '68 got Z- bars.

The mounts are there for the Z- bar through '73 for countries who still got swingaxles after we got IRS.

The mechanics of jack 'n' tuck:

Centrifugal force loads the outside wheels in a curve. There is more weight on the rear and more load on the outside in the corners. The weight transfer "tucks" the outside rear wheel in curves. The less preload on the torsions, the more the body wants to roll on the outside rear.

The inside wheel want to drop, that's your jack part.

A Z- bar or an old Empi style leaf spring sway bar helps plant the inside wheel. Without it the jack 'n' tuck thing may happen so fast it will make your head spin. Your head will spin because you may be upside- down at that point. [snip]
A Z-bar or EMPI camber compensator are the opposite of a sway bar and encourage the rear to lean when turning. VW took efforts to improve handling by reducing the positive rear camber of the Bug twice. In 1960 they lowered the transaxle in the frame, in 1967 they lowered the rear about an inch. I would encourage a little negative camber to improve handling. Think about it, if you have positive camber and push the rear of the Bug sideways the rear will want to lift on the outside axle, allowing it to tuck under. If you have slight negative camber it will want to drop to allow the axle to tuck in.

Most swing axle Bugs that are lowered in the rear handle like shit because they don't get the tow set right. The rear tires go forward as they go up.

What I remember from the '80's lowering was more than 1 Bug with a Select-A-Drop up front. Those of us who were broke went with cutting and turning the center of the front torsion housings for a fixed drop. Until I replaced the beam in my beach buggy just a couple years ago it was running a cut and turned beam up front.

If you are cutting and turning a king and link pin front end the front will drop about 6 times as much as you turn both beam tubes. So if you turn each tube 1/4 inch the front drops about 1-1/2 inches.

Sat Apr 16, 2022 11:01 am

pulled torsions for sure. I still pull one or maybe 1 from each tube if it's just an adjustible full width beam. Rides a little better