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Wed May 18, 2022 5:58 pm

Vw trike with a stock 1600 and an automatic trans ( not auto stick ), what do y’all think top speed would be? Would the automatic have enough parasitic loss to work a stock engine to hard and limit highway speeds?
normal timing/ tuning variables aside,I’m just specifically wondering about the engine- trans combo.

Wed May 18, 2022 6:09 pm

What is the drive ratio of an automatic? That and tire size will tell you what RPM you need to turn for speed.

Wed May 18, 2022 7:01 pm

The type 3 vehicle the transaxle likely came from also used a 1600. It was likely a FI car and I’m guessing you are running a single solex which may negatively affect the top speed some. Tires diameter and engine condition/tune are factors too. Bottom line - there’s no reason it shouldn’t run 70 + if everything is in order.

Wed May 18, 2022 7:05 pm

richardcraineum wrote: Vw trike with a stock 1600 and an automatic trans ( not auto stick ), what do y’all think top speed would be? Would the automatic have enough parasitic loss to work a stock engine to hard and limit highway speeds?
normal timing/ tuning variables aside,I’m just specifically wondering about the engine- trans combo.

I drove the crap out of a 69 T3 with an auto trans.....never had any issue with speed except on long 6% grades.
I cruised 65-70 whenever I was on a freeway.
A light trike should be a breeze.

Thu May 19, 2022 4:12 am

Been riding for over fifty years. I always figured if I couldn't rassle a heavy motorcycle I should ride a lighter motorcycle. My old Triumphs weigh around 400 pounds each, about what my GSXR weighs. I figure that's about right on the street. My 500cc AHRMA vintage racer weighs around 300 pounds.

The old VW Type 3 w/ automatic trans was designed to cruise at "highway" speeds

A VW trike will go faster than your angels can fly.

I would be far more concerned with steering and stopping. Didja know that whether you have two, three or four wheels your front brake(s) provide 70% of your braking?

Your front wheel provides 100% of your steering. You're not gonna lean that thing.

A VW squareback weighs around a ton. You lose half a ton of ugly weight (not disrespecting Type 3s, generally beyond a point heavier ain't pretty...) You lose half a ton of ugly weight when you lose the body, the axle beam and one of the front wheels. Your power to weight ratio improves around 100%, that is to say you will learn what dune buggy owners have always known...

That little motor is fast enough in a light vehicle.

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Thu May 19, 2022 10:13 am

richardcraineum wrote: Vw trike with a stock 1600 and an automatic trans ( not auto stick ), what do y’all think top speed would be? Would the automatic have enough parasitic loss to work a stock engine to hard and limit highway speeds?
normal timing/ tuning variables aside,I’m just specifically wondering about the engine- trans combo.
Depends on yuor gearing, and massively on the wind resistance. In a type 3 1600 TL the top speed is 5 km/h slower than the manual version. (130 versus 135 kmh)

Thu May 19, 2022 7:32 pm

richardcraineum wrote: Vw trike with a stock 1600 and an automatic trans ( not auto stick ), what do y’all think top speed would be? Would the automatic have enough parasitic loss to work a stock engine to hard and limit highway speeds?
normal timing/ tuning variables aside,I’m just specifically wondering about the engine- trans combo. when i worked at a vw dealer ship in the 1970s i drove a type 3 for a dealer trade it was brand new 4 speed . on the free way i ran 100mph on a flat road no hills they all ways ran better than the 1600 bugs spencerfvee

Fri May 20, 2022 3:46 am

In 1970 the Beetle was factory rated at 57 HP whereas the the type 3 was 65 HP. Maybe that was why?

Fri May 20, 2022 4:12 am

oprn wrote: In 1970 the Beetle was factory rated at 57 HP whereas the the type 3 was 65 HP. Maybe that was why?
That was SAE. Real hp was/is 50 and 54 Hp/Din (49,3/ 53,2 BHP)
The 54 hp 1500S (pre 68) would and could outrun the newer 54 hp 1600.
Downhill and with a good tail wind I´m sure the 1600´s could be squeezed to 100 mph after the speedometer. Real speed almost aslways varies quite a bit.

Now back to the Aut versus manual

Fri May 20, 2022 5:43 am

Alstrup wrote: oprn wrote: In 1970 the Beetle was factory rated at 57 HP whereas the the type 3 was 65 HP. Maybe that was why?
That was SAE. Real hp was/is 50 and 54 Hp/Din (49,3/ 53,2 BHP)
The 54 hp 1500S (pre 68) would and could outrun the newer 54 hp 1600.
Downhill and with a good tail wind I´m sure the 1600´s could be squeezed to 100 mph after the speedometer. Real speed almost aslways varies quite a bit.

Now back to the Aut versus manual ........................................................................................................to be fair i went to 87mph in 3rd gear i shifted into 4th gear it took a while to reach 100mph .on that day i was trying to race a Buick Opel GT. all so i feal why i could get 100mpg out of the typ3 in the 1970s the gas was way better not the shit gas they sell now adays lol oh to be young and dumb lol spencerfvee

Fri May 20, 2022 12:12 pm

Soo, approx. 6100rpm in 3rd, with a stock 1600 type 3 engine.... :roll:

Fri May 20, 2022 1:03 pm

Alstrup wrote: Soo, approx. 6100rpm in 3rd, with a stock 1600 type 3 engine.... :roll: I think the old cable driven speedometer has a tendency to show an optimistic speed. My Uncle bought a ‘57 Oval window from the original owner in the early 80’s. It would indicate 80 mph flat out with 165SR15 tires and the original 36hp engine. Was it really running 80? I’d guess that it was reading 6 mph high at that speed but who knows?

Fri May 20, 2022 1:52 pm

Matthew wrote: Alstrup wrote: Soo, approx. 6100rpm in 3rd, with a stock 1600 type 3 engine.... :roll: I think the old cable driven speedometer has a tendency to show an optimistic speed. My Uncle bought a ‘57 Oval window from the original owner in the early 80’s. It would indicate 80 mph flat out with 165SR15 tires and the original 36hp engine. Was it really running 80? I’d guess that it was reading 6 mph high at that speed but who knows?

Actually it should show pretty exact speed.....but...keeping in mind that if the wheels are not stock diameter and/or the tires are lower profile so the whole circumference is smaller....the cable driven speedo CAN show considerably faster speeds that reality.

To the rpm thing....in a type 3 (or type 4) of the day with automatic...many of which were D-jet injected....while they had more HP than the twin carbed version....the redline for the system with regard to making power is about 5200-ish rpm. No more capacity for injector pulsewidth above that rpm.

The other item to be appreciated in the type3/4 automatic is the gear ratios and final drive. They are steep compared to the 4 speed and as long as the torque converter is running well and is fairly efficient (the factory rating was 96%).....you will need to pair this with an engine that produce torque down low and in the mid range...no so much up high.

Gear Ratios
First...........2.65:1
Second..........1.59:1
Third...........1:1
Reverse.........1.8:1

Final Drive.....3.67:1

If you have the torque and power down low, your bands and modulator are well adjusted....these were actually pretty quick off the line and through 2nd gear. Ray

Fri May 20, 2022 3:29 pm

The last year for the twin carb type 3, VW claimed made 66 HP whereas the EFI was down one at 65 HP. I am not sure what their claim was for the older 1500S. Yes that was the SAE HP ratings. That was the standard VW used back then. It didn't change to DIN until sometime in the 70s here in Canada.

Fri May 20, 2022 4:02 pm

Alstrup wrote: Soo, approx. 6100rpm in 3rd, with a stock 1600 type 3 engine.... :roll: ........................................................................look i have had a lot of bugs that could do 80 85 mph in 3rd gear i used take my 1970 bug that had a formula vee tack that was brand new in 1970 and do 85 mph only going to 5,500 rpm in 3rd gear . as you well know a vw trans is realy a 3speed trans 4th being over drive . so your i was doing 6,100 rpm is bull shit .it would have blown the motor apart if i was doing 6,100 rpm so if your going to try and tell some it did not happy it happen deal with it .spencerfvee

Fri May 20, 2022 8:16 pm

oprn wrote: The last year for the twin carb type 3, VW claimed made 66 HP whereas the EFI was down one at 65 HP. I am not sure what their claim was for the older 1500S. Yes that was the SAE HP ratings. That was the standard VW used back then. It didn't change to DIN until sometime in the 70s here in Canada.

Yep....but....I think there was some political tweaking of numbers for one reason or another. Just going off memory but in two different texts over the years....relatively knowledgeable people stated that for some reason, VW was downgrading hp rating on the type 3 fuel injected cars for a couple of years.

The speculation I remember reading was that it allowed them to basically make the same exact engine for about 3-4 years in a row with "0"new cost outlay for improvement and then simply state 2 years later....as a sales gimmick....."now with 4 more hp!". I do not know if there is any truth to that at all. Ray

Sat May 21, 2022 4:10 am

I was not aware that the later type 3 engines had a higher HP claim. All the secs I have seen said 65 HP SAE but that is only to '73 as the type 3 was discontinued in Canada after that. Interesting.

My sister's '66 felt more lively at the lower end than her '71 did. Of course dual carbs always do compared to a single throttle plate and it was a slightly lighter car. The '71 had a far smoother idle, better cold weather starting, better fuel economy and zero maintenance apart from the Bakelite injector holders always being broken.

Sat May 21, 2022 4:55 am

spencerfvee wrote: Alstrup wrote: Soo, approx. 6100rpm in 3rd, with a stock 1600 type 3 engine.... :roll: ........................................................................look i have had a lot of bugs that could do 80 85 mph in 3rd gear i used take my 1970 bug that had a formula vee tack that was brand new in 1970 and do 85 mph only going to 5,500 rpm in 3rd gear . as you well know a vw trans is realy a 3speed trans 4th being over drive . so your i was doing 6,100 rpm is bull shit .it would have blown the motor apart if i was doing 6,100 rpm so if your going to try and tell some it did not happy it happen deal with it .spencerfvee
Spencer, stop acting like a spoiled child. It is simple math, - and a seriusly optimistic speedometer. Look at it this way:
A stock 1500/1600 transmission is 4,125 R/P. with 3,80/2,06/1,26/0,88 or 0,89 4rth depending on year. The stock tires on the type 3 was 5,60, 155R or 165R x 15. So that is a rolling diameter between approx 1,97 & 2,03 m.
Soo, a calculation for third gear says 1000/4,125/1,26 x2 (taking the middle ground) x 60 = 23,09 kmh per 1000 rpm.
87mph=139,9 kmh.
So 139,9/23,09 = 6062 rpm.
Now, if it was a non stock engine it could soon look totally different.