TheSamba.com :: View topic - Colorado just deemed my conversion illegal

Mon May 20, 2024 7:01 pm

Abscate wrote:

How many threads are there on having to smog with your cat hot as hades, or else you don’t pass smog?

Process that , please. Subie doesn't need that (even a 1994 EJ22). Very clean.

Mon May 20, 2024 7:07 pm

vanis13 wrote: Abscate wrote: vanis13 wrote: Abscate wrote: but from a regulatory standpoint it is a can of worms to try and cert engine swaps with different equipment lists etc.

why bother certification, as long as it tests better than the vehicle that original its a win for the environment, if it tests the same its a wash.

Keeping old vehicles going also saves the environment from the impacts of material acquisition etc. of building new vehicles and impacts to dispose of old vehicles.

Barriers to keep old vehicles going benefits only the makers of new vehicles.

How many threads are there on having to smog with your cat hot as hades, or else you don’t pass smog?

Process that , please.

I don't really follow...but I'll go with, that getting the cat hot is the VW engine that needs this rather than a Subaru or other swap...so I don't get your point.

The smog reducing reactions that take place in the converter only happen when the converter is hot. a cold converter is not very effective at reducing the smog producing pollutant. Thus one should always warm up the car well prior to the smog test. **

In addition a cold engine will usually run richer than a warm engine. In older cars this was done with a choke, in modern car this is done via fuel injection cold enrichment.
So make sure the car is fully warmed up prior to the test for these two important reasons....converter works best when hot, and engine runs leaner when warmed.

** https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Physical_a...tion_Rates

Mon May 20, 2024 7:39 pm

zerotofifty wrote:

So make sure the car is fully warmed up prior to the test for these two important reasons....converter works best when hot, and engine runs leaner when warmed.

All a bit useless if the vehicle sits outside for 3 hours before they test...

Mon May 20, 2024 8:30 pm

fxr wrote: zerotofifty wrote:

So make sure the car is fully warmed up prior to the test for these two important reasons....converter works best when hot, and engine runs leaner when warmed.

All a bit useless if the vehicle sits outside for 3 hours before they test...

No, if the vehicle sits for three hours with engine off, then it is very necessary to get it warmed up for the test. The converter and engine will become very cool during that three hours.

Tue May 21, 2024 6:31 am

Re ^.... I'm guessing what was meant by useless is warning it up ready for the test and then have it sit for hours before test is performed.

In any case, this warming thing is for the OEM engine, we don't hear of this needing to be done on the swapped engines ( notice the frequent poster that brought up this red herring hasn't commented again)

So back to original point.... What is the benefit/who benefits from preventing putting an as-clean or cleaner running engine in an existing car?...I say the car makers and those that supply them, and this comes at the cost on the environment with the impact of harvesting the materials to make that new thing and the impact of disposing of the old thing.

Tue May 21, 2024 8:47 am

You can't talk about smog without talking about politics.

Fortunately, I live in a state with a 25-year exemption. Those of you who have to SMOG really have to lay it into your representatives. It's the only way to fix it.

The DMV waived their hand in Texas and like that they decided that they would no longer allow Sand/Dune/etc Buggies be registered. Any that were registered wouldn't be allowed to get registration at renewal. A group of people lobbied the State and got regulations passed to stop the DMV rule making.

If those people did nothing we would not have sand buggies anymore in Texas.

You have to keep in mind that there are people that drive around and see an old van like yours and think it shouldn't even be on the road. Those types of people have loud voices.

Maybe this email list of your legislators will help: https://leg.colorado.gov/legislators

Tue May 21, 2024 1:44 pm

vanis13 wrote: Abscate wrote: vanis13 wrote: Abscate wrote: but from a regulatory standpoint it is a can of worms to try and cert engine swaps with different equipment lists etc.

why bother certification, as long as it tests better than the vehicle that original its a win for the environment, if it tests the same its a wash.

Keeping old vehicles going also saves the environment from the impacts of material acquisition etc. of building new vehicles and impacts to dispose of old vehicles.

Barriers to keep old vehicles going benefits only the makers of new vehicles.

How many threads are there on having to smog with your cat hot as hades, or else you don’t pass smog?

Process that , please.

I don't really follow...but I'll go with, that getting the cat hot is the VW engine that needs this rather than a Subaru or other swap...so I don't get your point.

The point is a smog test is an imperfect test which render this statement incorrect ,,,,

Quote: why bother certification, as long as it tests better than the vehicle that original its a win for the environment, if it tests the same its a wash.

Tue May 21, 2024 2:22 pm

Abscate wrote:

The point is a smog test is an imperfect test which render this statement incorrect ,,,,

Quote: why bother certification, as long as it tests better than the vehicle that original its a win for the environment, if it tests the same its a wash.

maybe, IDK but that is the test. and if imperfect that applies that it is imperfect in all vehicles....doesn't speak to prohibiting newer (most likely less polluting) engines for the objective of cleaner environment.

Tue May 21, 2024 2:24 pm

also curious - how do electric conversions work into all this?

like would the law mandate original engine over zero emissions electric conversions?

Tue May 21, 2024 2:55 pm

I'd be curious to hear what Mike from RMW has to say about this now, if they've made any progress on their swaps and this whole thing.

Tue May 21, 2024 7:24 pm

vanis13 wrote: also curious - how do electric conversions work into all this?

like would the law mandate original engine over zero emissions electric conversions?

When you convert to electric your propulsion on your registration changes and you become smog exempt. Exact wording varies by State of course

Tue May 21, 2024 7:28 pm

Abscate wrote: vanis13 wrote: also curious - how do electric conversions work into all this?

like would the law mandate original engine over zero emissions electric conversions?

When you convert to electric your propulsion on your registration changes and you become smog exempt. Exact wording varies by State of course

I have gas and diesel propulsion both of which are smog exempt.

Tue May 21, 2024 8:10 pm

We're talking about SMOG, not SMUG.

Wed May 22, 2024 9:11 am

EV's are SMOG exempt - not SMUG exempt.