TheSamba.com :: View topic - Brakes Failed... Parts Identification help needed please.

Fri Jul 15, 2022 11:59 am

To cut a long story short, had the rear brakes done a few weeks ago at a garage. Anyway, they failed last night, luckily at home but for some reason it seems that it threw the retaining pins. They are all damaged, the springs have chewed up, it damaged one of the cylinders and there is some damage on the shoes.

The HUB number appears to be 113501615C.

I can only find hubs with the D at the end.

Can some one please advise what the right parts are from the following pictures. Something doesn't appear to be right.

Many thanks,

Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:12 pm

Other than saying that sure doesn't look like the rear brakes on a split bus with reduction box axles, it appears the entire brake assemblies are upside down because they are on the wrong side left-right. Must be all Bug Type 1 stuff involved in that setup.

Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:22 pm

Here is my '64 for a comparison:

And this is yours:

Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:32 pm

This is the rear of the brakes...

Fri Jul 15, 2022 12:46 pm

Looks like a bug to me based on that last picture.

Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:00 pm

The set up is on the van.

Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:08 pm

SPLITV wrote: The set up is on the van.

Yeah. I think what we are trying to get across to you is that you can throw the VW Van/Bus/Transporter original parts manuals/part numbers for your particular year VW Van/Bus/Transporter out the window because quite simply at least when it comes to your rear axle/braking system VW simply didn't build it like that with those particular components.

Lucky for you, the brake drum (big round heavy thing the wheel bolts to), the brake wheel cylinder (doo dad with the torn rubber boot) and the brake shoes (the things that help to make your bus stop) all still have the part numbers on them. So chances are, that's what you need to replace them with.

Fri Jul 15, 2022 1:28 pm

yeah I understand that, this is what I was originally getting at, sorry if I wasn't clear. So based on the parts above what exactly am I looking for which will fit?

Cheers, for example the shoes part number appears to be for a VW POLO which is strange.

The HUB, I can only find similar but with a letter D at the end not the C.

I am looking for the UNIFORM setup which is correct for that HUB.

Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:14 pm

I'm not sure what's wrong but it looks like you have the wrong retaining pics on the springs - they are too long and those parts are sticking out past the brake shoes.

Maybe they are catching on the drum and getting fouled?

Compare yours vs. the other Bus brakes pic where they sit below the edge of the brake shoes.

Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:18 pm

If your brakes completely failed it would be a good idea to upgrade to dual MC so you still have about half the brakes still working.

You should post those images in the 1958-67 beetle forum to get more info there. My guess is you need wider drums.

The original type 1 VW dealer parts manual can be accessed thru:

http://www.oacdp.org/queue.html

Left click on the "Upcoming" button at the top of that page.

BTW having the metal brake line zip tied to the axle tube is a bad idea. Here is a 1966 brake line setup, note not touching the axle tube:

Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:22 pm

thanks for the advice everyone, getting a bit closer to finding out what may be needed.

I've just had a look through some old posts about some work that was done about 10 years ago. The old owner mentions something called wide 5 drums from an early beetle.

Do these look like those?

Fri Jul 15, 2022 5:59 pm

Well 113 of the part number is deluxe beetle.

Here is the post-1967 beetle drum:

Here is the post-1971 bus small five lug bolt pattern on the hub minus the drum:

Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:05 pm

How to read part numbers and how to use for searches:

Parts manuals are a real eye opener, invariably you will find parts you did not know your VW originally had. For a lot of the smaller parts you can use the part number from the parts manuals to find more info part or availability of the part you are looking for thru a search of the WWW.

When you do WWW searches with the nine digit part numbers, put VW and a space before the part number. Remove the two spaces in the part number, and leave off any letter suffix at the end of the part number. So you will get a "VW XXXXXXXXX" to search with. Also "VW XXX-XXX-XXX" will work for other websites.

Keep in mind about every nine digit VW part number:

A. That the very first digit is what model of VW the part was originally designed for. Lots of type 1 parts on the type 2s, some type 2 and 3 parts were used in the type 1. Other parts are only used on that type of VW and no other.

B. 2nd and 3rd digits are the model the part was originally designed for. Some parts are ONLY for that model. Others were later fitted to all VW models.

C. 4th digit tells you which section/chapter of the parts manual the part is found in.

D. The 5th thru 9th digits are the actual part number.

E. Letter suffix means it is an improved part over the last part without letter suffix, or as each letter ( A, B, C, D, etc.) is used the later letter means some change has been made. Sometimes each later part can be used directly in the same area, some can not without replacing other parts around it.

F. If you know a part is RH or LH ONLY, you can tell by the last digit of the part number which side it goes on. an even digit then the part is RH, odd digit and the part is LH. Easiest way to remember this is that a LH drive VW has to have at least the driver, so one person, which is an odd digit. A VW with one driver and one passenger is two people, so an even digit.

Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:16 pm

thanks Eric&Barb.

Not like any of those pictures...

mine are 5 stud, not lugs.

Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:19 pm

SPLITV wrote: thanks Eric&Barb.

Not like any of those pictures...

mine are 5 stud, not lugs.

Exactly, the large five pattern you have was used from 1938-67 beetle and 1950-71 bus.

Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:24 pm

Cool,

so the hubs are all the same up to that year? The five stud?

I'm not sure what I've got here but it looks a mess from what I've seen tonight.

Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:27 pm

as in, to replace the drums...

Part no... 113501615D will be ok to replace mine which are 113501615C.

I've read and printed your guide.

Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:31 pm

SPLITV wrote: Cool,

so the hubs are all the same up to that year? The five stud?

I'm not sure what I've got here but it looks a mess from what I've seen tonight.

Hubs are something that goes onto the rear axle splines that the drum is fastened to, as does the post-1971 bus see image previously posted above. The earlier VWs have just a brake drum, no hub.

Drums changed over the years thus the "C" suffix at the end of the part number inside your drum. See the previously posted info about suffix letters, that means there were three previous type 1 rear brake drums.

Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:33 pm

SPLITV wrote: This is the rear of the brakes...

Is that a solid copper tubing brake line?

Fri Jul 15, 2022 6:35 pm

BarryL wrote:
Is that a solid copper tubing brake line?

Probably nickel copper alloy brake lines. Pure copper will fail very soon due to not being able to hold in 1,500+ PSI.