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Sun Mar 03, 2024 8:36 am

APPLEGREENVW wrote: dopeboat wrote: APPLEGREENVW wrote: Did you measure the case? Is it the standard bore? If the case cut by someone, they used the wrong thrust bearing. It might be easier to find another case engine. Good luck.

Thanks for your reply! I didn’t measure it, but the bearings are marked standard. I’ve dropped the case at a vw shop “locally” to see about machining it. It’ll definitely need the 2mm thrust cut, I’m just hoping that’s enough. My budget rebuild is suddenly becoming much less budget…

I’ve also ordered stepped dowel pins. I know there’s a lot of opinions about whether or not it’s best to try and remedy the dowel situation or just leave it as is, knowing they’re really just there to locate the bearings, not to hold them in place. I’m still on the fence over whether I’ll use them or not.
I would use the stepped dowels pin on the thrust bearing. They make 3.5mm thrust bearings.

Any idea who makes those 3.5mm thrust? An initial google search didn’t turn up anything.

Sun Mar 03, 2024 8:49 am

https://www.v-dubstore.com/product-p/e98-1710-s.htm

Sun Mar 03, 2024 9:00 am

APPLEGREENVW wrote: https://www.v-dubstore.com/product-p/e98-1710-s.htm

I'm only seeing up to 0.080" thrust there, which is 2mm?

Sun Mar 03, 2024 9:21 am

dopeboat wrote: APPLEGREENVW wrote: https://www.v-dubstore.com/product-p/e98-1710-s.htm

I'm only seeing up to 0.080" thrust there, which is 2mm?
Look here.

https://www.pacificcustoms.com/main-bearings.html

Sun Mar 03, 2024 11:40 am

APPLEGREENVW wrote: dopeboat wrote: APPLEGREENVW wrote: https://www.v-dubstore.com/product-p/e98-1710-s.htm

I'm only seeing up to 0.080" thrust there, which is 2mm?
Look here.

https://www.pacificcustoms.com/main-bearings.html

Okay I see, we're just having an interesting miscommunication. Those bearings offer up to 4.5mm thrust face width, not thrust cut. The standard bearing (0" thrust cut) has a 2.5mm thrust face width. A 2mm thrust cut case takes a bearing which has a 4.5mm thrust face width, and I think the 3.5mm thrust you're referencing is actually the width of the bearing face, not the cut.

Sun Mar 03, 2024 6:27 pm

Yes, we are having miscommunication, part of learning. Just have the machine job that working on your case, order the correct main bearing kit for it.

Sun Mar 31, 2024 2:51 pm

Cleaning the case to get ready for reassembly - the indicated oil port in the case half shown below seems to be a blind passage, i.e. a dead end. I can’t blow any air through it. I’m aware there are blind passages in the case, but this one seems odd to me. It doesn’t look like the #4 bearing can get any oil to it if this is indeed a dead end, because there’s no passage in the other case half. What gives?

EDIT: Well, it turns out this is a bit of a can of worms. For those of you not in the know, there is a tapered plug inserted at the bottom of the aforementioned gallery to restrict the oil flow to the #4 main bearing. Mine is likely totally crapped up with gunk. The part that's a can of worms is that many people out there, following any machine work on the case, will pull all the oil gallery plugs anyway to ensure no shavings remain. There are some truly horrifying photos floating around out there of what people found behind these plugs even after the case is "cleaned." It looks like that's what I'll now be doing. One step forward, three steps back on this car!

DOUBLE EDIT: In the end I'm electing not to pull the case plugs. After talking to the shop that did the work on my case, they recommended leaving well enough alone - that the gunk in the dead ends of the oil gallery will likely stay there. I DID get the #4 bearing gallery to blow through in the end, after going through about an entire can of Brakleen. I'm sure there are some very wise minds who will disagree with this, but that's just the way of life!

Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:05 pm

VW_Jimbo wrote: CB is a good product. But I would choose the proven AA head casting everytime!

I have 2 questions- I think the AA heads are made in China- does it matter where they are made if they have a good reputation? Are the Auto Lina and CB performance heads made in Brazil?

Will the AA heads bolt right on and use the rest of the stock fuel injection intake manifolds- do they fit right over the dual ports in the head without any issue/modification?

Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:17 pm

[quote="MuzzcoVW"] dopeboat wrote: And be careful replacing heads! If you buy the AA heads they are great, but the combustion chamber CCs are way too large for a stock build and your compression will be far too low

One more question on the AA heads- are you referring to the 50cc comment on the website about Head CC volume?:

"A modernized Combustion chamber, for increased head flow & performance. A second Full Fin, so you can Fly cut your heads deeper to achieve almost any desired Head CC volume needed."

For a stock 1600 fuel injection motor like dopeboat's (and my 1978) do you think the AA heads need modification?

I'm trying to determine if I replace my heads and have the mechanic do rings or pistons/cylinders too to fix a compression issue..and cross my fingers it isn't anything else deeper in the case!

Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:51 pm

Sorry one more question I just thought of (I'm a novice at mechanical things like this so my aplogies!): what about the head temp sensor that is on the driver's side head? If using the AA heads, I don't think there is a provision to install the sensor (again assuming trying to keep the stock fuel injection set up..)

Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:47 am

[quote="andrew1978convertible"] MuzzcoVW wrote: dopeboat wrote: And be careful replacing heads! If you buy the AA heads they are great, but the combustion chamber CCs are way too large for a stock build and your compression will be far too low

One more question on the AA heads- are you referring to the 50cc comment on the website about Head CC volume?:

"A modernized Combustion chamber, for increased head flow & performance. A second Full Fin, so you can Fly cut your heads deeper to achieve almost any desired Head CC volume needed."

For a stock 1600 fuel injection motor like dopeboat's (and my 1978) do you think the AA heads need modification?

I'm trying to determine if I replace my heads and have the mechanic do rings or pistons/cylinders too to fix a compression issue..and cross my fingers it isn't anything else deeper in the case! Yes they do need to be cut if the 60cc head chambers! A friend bought some and slapped them on without knowing the chambers are 60cc. It ran like shit!! Stock F.I. heads measure 52cc. HUGE difference. His compression was so low that we could barely get it to idle

Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:30 am

andrew1978convertible wrote: If using the AA heads, I don't think there is a provision to install the sensor (again assuming trying to keep the stock fuel injection set up..)

The heads on my ‘79 were replaced by the PO. The TS-2 was installed on the rear face of the head, a few inches away from the exhaust connection. I don’t know what led them to put it there. My stock engine runs very well. And I’ve seen pictures of other FI Beetle engines with TS-2 in the same location as mine.

Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:42 am

andrew1978convertible wrote: Sorry one more question I just thought of (I'm a novice at mechanical things like this so my aplogies!): what about the head temp sensor that is on the driver's side head? If using the AA heads, I don't think there is a provision to install the sensor (again assuming trying to keep the stock fuel injection set up..) Yes, they have the provision for the temp sensor

Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:45 am

Lost69Convertible wrote: andrew1978convertible wrote: If using the AA heads, I don't think there is a provision to install the sensor (again assuming trying to keep the stock fuel injection set up..)

The heads on my ‘79 were replaced by the PO. The TS-2 was installed on the rear face of the head, a few inches away from the exhaust connection. I don’t know what led them to put it there. My stock engine runs very well. And I’ve seen pictures of other FI Beetle engines with TS-2 in the same location as mine. This is where the sensor should be installed. It will be through the tin above cylinder 4 on the left side of the engine bay. Is this where you mean, or elsewhere? I've heard of them being tapped into the top of the head above the exhaust port on earlier heads that didn't include this provision

Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:26 am

MuzzcoVW wrote: Yes they do need to be cut if the 60cc head chambers! A friend bought some and slapped them on without knowing the chambers are 60cc. It ran like shit!! Stock F.I. heads measure 52cc. HUGE difference. His compression was so low that we could barely get it to idle

I'll discuss with the supplier if they can be machined to 52cc if that is what a FI car should have. (by the way, even though the car is stock I run the best gas I can get, which is 93 octane shell, so I'm sure the CR is still for 93 octane even with the 52cc you cite)

I'll also mention the temp sensor- it does make sense if that hole is indeed machined to accept the sensor.

I did not mean to hijack this thread, but it seems relevant to dopeboat's project since he'll have the same concerns if keeping the stock fuel injection and a wealth of information flowing in this thread!

Thank you!

Thu Apr 04, 2024 10:47 am

A stock 1600 should not need 93 at all. I run 87 in my current 1600 with 32 degrees timing. Now on my new 1776, I'll be running 8.5:1 so I'll be running 91... maybe 93 octane. Need to see how it all works when ready for test drive. As for 52cc, yes that is stock F.I heads and that is the proper spot for the sensor. I suggest doing a LOT of reading in the engine build threads here. You NEVER want to assume anything on a build as far as measurements. There are so many parts now that are not exactly factory spec that you can have uissues in a hurry. Check, measure and check again. The CB Performance engine calculator is a great easy checking tool

Fri Apr 05, 2024 2:12 pm

Well today I went to get my heads ready for installation. I’d bought a set of lightly used Mexican FI heads from a samba member on the classifieds. The heads were advertised as bolt-on-and-go. While I’m aware that’s somewhat of a misnomer, given I’d clean them first, I elected to pull the valves thinking I’d give them a light lapping just for posterity’s sake. I discovered the exhaust valve contact patches are super pitted. Even after lapping, they show very deep pits. What do we think here, bolt em on and run? I don’t want to be needing to pull the heads immediately after rebuild when I discover compression is low because of crappy valves…

Fri Apr 05, 2024 2:46 pm

Any local machine shops that could touch them with the valve grinder?, doesn't have to be a VW shop for that job.

Sat Apr 06, 2024 7:07 pm

I ended up doing some power-lapping with a drill. Clamped the stem tip in the chuck and went to town. Apparently my actual valve lappers either are of very poor quality, or it’s so cold in my unheated shop that they’re not flexing enough to grip the head of the valve.

Either way, I lapped as little as possible, as much as necessary, and got all the exhaust valves in serviceable condition. I did the intakes as well, of course, but they didn’t take much. Of course I was so frustrated by this point I forgot to take pictures of the finished valves, so you’ll just have to take my word for it.

One tool I may invest in in the future, if I end up needing to rebuild heads frequently, is one of those bench mounted valve spring compressors. The hand-turn crank one is for the birds - slips off constantly.

I then installed the one head - about five times. Against all available advice on the samba, I tried to install the pushrod tubes with Right Stuff on the seals, thinking, I’m special, it’ll work for me. In my defense, the Wilson’s book does say they can be installed dry or with sealant. I’m not sure what stars have to align for one to install them with sealant, because one or two of the seals kept having a small area pop completely through into the head. So I pulled them all, cleaned the RTV off the seals with solvent, and in the process, cut my thumb badly enough that, had I been less annoyed or inhaled less brakleen fumes, probably would have gone for stitches. The ends of those tubes are SHARP.

Anyway, now I have the Empi silicone seals on order, they’ll go in dry, and we’ll live to fight another day. One thing that has me a little concerned is the number of times I’ve torqued the head down on these windage tubes. Is there a chance they’ll crack at the bellows after having been compressed so many times?

Tue Apr 09, 2024 5:06 am

dopeboat wrote: I ended up doing some power-lapping with a drill. Clamped the stem tip in the chuck and went to town. Apparently my actual valve lappers either are of very poor quality, or it’s so cold in my unheated shop that they’re not flexing enough to grip the head of the valve.

Either way, I lapped as little as possible, as much as necessary, and got all the exhaust valves in serviceable condition. I did the intakes as well, of course, but they didn’t take much. Of course I was so frustrated by this point I forgot to take pictures of the finished valves, so you’ll just have to take my word for it.

One tool I may invest in in the future, if I end up needing to rebuild heads frequently, is one of those bench mounted valve spring compressors. The hand-turn crank one is for the birds - slips off constantly.

I then installed the one head - about five times. Against all available advice on the samba, I tried to install the pushrod tubes with Right Stuff on the seals, thinking, I’m special, it’ll work for me. In my defense, the Wilson’s book does say they can be installed dry or with sealant. I’m not sure what stars have to align for one to install them with sealant, because one or two of the seals kept having a small area pop completely through into the head. So I pulled them all, cleaned the RTV off the seals with solvent, and in the process, cut my thumb badly enough that, had I been less annoyed or inhaled less brakleen fumes, probably would have gone for stitches. The ends of those tubes are SHARP.

Anyway, now I have the Empi silicone seals on order, they’ll go in dry, and we’ll live to fight another day. One thing that has me a little concerned is the number of times I’ve torqued the head down on these windage tubes. Is there a chance they’ll crack at the bellows after having been compressed so many times? Yeah... ALWAYS install those dry. I have never seen them leak when installed dry using the modern silicone seals, but always seem to weep with sealer