vince1 |
Sun Jan 19, 2025 1:20 pm |
|
Hi all samba members.
I'm going to build a nice little 1835 thick walled engine for a friend , going in a 1970 bay window bus, running a 8*35 beetle gearbox, currently under restoration.
He has a 1600 engine we are going to start with.
We are going to use the case, flywheel crank and rods if everything is ok.
He has some parts waiting on the shelf :
1.4 Scat rockers, a pair of 40 Dellortto DRLA carbs, a bay window stainless steel Empi side flow exhaust, AA Thick Wall "A" pistons and liners kit, CB Magnaspark ignition kit.
He wants a nice little healthy engine for weekend driving.
What heads and cam would you suggest for it ? Was thinking of an FK7 or FK42 like cam to have a good use of his 1.4:1 rockers, maybe the new DG 063 heads or should we stay on heads like Tim's Stage 1 or AA 500 Stage 1 round ported ? About 8.5 : 1 CR. 0.04" deck.
Thanks for your input as it's been a while since I made an engine, and maybe there are new camshafts choices. |
|
Alstrup |
Sun Jan 19, 2025 2:13 pm |
|
Everything too much for a bus engine imho.
Cam. If it has to be Engle, fk41. Heads, detailed stock balved, super stock at the most. I dont like sidewinders for busses, but since he has it. - At least correct the secondary collector and muffler |
|
sled |
Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:58 pm |
|
definitely 35x32 heads. keep the cam mild to keep torque down low where you want it in a heavy baywindow. Get compression up to 8.8 minimum |
|
vince1 |
Sun Jan 19, 2025 10:26 pm |
|
About 20 years ago I had a 1776 / Tim's stage 1 / web218 / 40 DRLA 's combo in my panelvan ....
This thing had low end torque and was capable to pull easily to 6500 rpm red line. I'm a little afraid that what you propose is a little too "tame" for a weekend driver engine.
I think that 40*35 valves could be a benefit for the displacement / carbs / exhaust we want.
Also made a 1835 for a 1966 westfalia with Tim's stage 1 /40 DRLA's Steve Long V280 cam VS exhaust about 15 years ago my friend was very happy with the combo. |
|
modok |
Sun Jan 19, 2025 10:52 pm |
|
You could calculate for us how much taller the planned gearing is VS factory
This is how much the displacement needs to be increased.
I could do it, but I'm too lazy
Or, I mean I'm very busy with very important matters.
i remember your double door panel van was awesome, I was jealous :D |
|
Dusty1 |
Mon Jan 20, 2025 7:27 am |
|
vince1 wrote: About 20 years ago I had a 1776 / Tim's stage 1 / web218 / 40 DRLA 's combo in my panelvan ....
This thing had low end torque and was capable to pull easily to 6500 rpm red line. I'm a little afraid that what you propose is a little too "tame" for a weekend driver engine.
I think that 40*35 valves could be a benefit for the displacement / carbs / exhaust we want.
Also made a 1835 for a 1966 westfalia with Tim's stage 1 /40 DRLA's Steve Long V280 cam VS exhaust about 15 years ago my friend was very happy with the combo.
If that's what you like build another one just like it. 8)
.
. |
|
Cusser |
Mon Jan 20, 2025 9:06 am |
|
vince1 wrote: I'm going to build a nice little 1835 thick walled engine for a friend , going in a 1970 bay window bus
For sure I'd use a doghouse fan shroud, doghouse cooler, fan, etc., in a 1970 bus.
I run thin-wall 1835cc DP in Arizona but in a Beetle and use an external oil cooler. 1835cc in a 1970 bus designed for 1600cc single port engine does not seem a good match for warm weather and highway driving. |
|
mikedjames |
Mon Jan 20, 2025 9:38 am |
|
Cusser wrote: vince1 wrote: I'm going to build a nice little 1835 thick walled engine for a friend , going in a 1970 bay window bus
For sure I'd use a doghouse fan shroud, doghouse cooler, fan, etc., in a 1970 bus.
I run thin-wall 1835cc DP in Arizona but in a Beetle and use an external oil cooler. 1835cc in a 1970 bus designed for 1600cc single port engine does not seem a good match for warm weather and highway driving.
I agree an oil cooler is also a good idea. Seeing as even with a doghouse cooler and a 1641 stockish DP engine in a bus going just the right speed up hill, still in the power band, you can fry it.
Beetles use full power for a few tens of seconds then drop back. A bus keeps hammering on. |
|
Alstrup |
Mon Jan 20, 2025 11:17 am |
|
vince1 wrote: About 20 years ago I had a 1776 / Tim's stage 1 / web218 / 40 DRLA 's combo in my panelvan ....
This thing had low end torque and was capable to pull easily to 6500 rpm red line. I'm a little afraid that what you propose is a little too "tame" for a weekend driver engine.
I think that 40*35 valves could be a benefit for the displacement / carbs / exhaust we want.
Also made a 1835 for a 1966 westfalia with Tim's stage 1 /40 DRLA's Steve Long V280 cam VS exhaust about 15 years ago my friend was very happy with the combo.
Well, if they want that behavior then thats the way to go.
I can only say that around here it happens quite often that i get involved in detuning peoples bus engines because they do not pull torque where they need it. In fact I am detuning a 115 hp Kadron powered 1835 right now. 218/119 cam, ported stock heads, 9-1 CR EL homebuilt muffler. Reason is that the owner has a tendency to drive too fast because it runs so well at 120 km. but it also runs well at 150 kmh. and at 80 kmh it is juust on the underside of the torque band. At the same time he will now go from an 8/35 to an 8/33 transmission and I will reduce the cam with 12 degrees@ 0,050" It will probably cost him 10-12 hp, but move the torque band 400 rpm downwards, but it will be more suitable for a bus, - at least for his wishes. |
|
vince1 |
Mon Jan 20, 2025 12:31 pm |
|
Dusty1 wrote: vince1 wrote: About 20 years ago I had a 1776 / Tim's stage 1 / web218 / 40 DRLA 's combo in my panelvan ....
This thing had low end torque and was capable to pull easily to 6500 rpm red line. I'm a little afraid that what you propose is a little too "tame" for a weekend driver engine.
I think that 40*35 valves could be a benefit for the displacement / carbs / exhaust we want.
Also made a 1835 for a 1966 westfalia with Tim's stage 1 /40 DRLA's Steve Long V280 cam VS exhaust about 15 years ago my friend was very happy with the combo.
If that's what you like build another one just like it. 8)
.
.
Yes, I have to chose a similar cam like the web 218, but taking the advantage of 1.4:1 rockers with gentle lifter lift, FK7 seems nice for it. |
|
94touring |
Mon Jan 20, 2025 12:47 pm |
|
Occasionally when these topics come up I'll plug the different options into the dub dyno app for a rough idea of possibilities. The fk41 makes better torque down low with a little sacrifice to HP way up top in comparison to the fk7 on 1.4 lifters. |
|
jpaull |
Mon Jan 20, 2025 9:15 pm |
|
Something that would give a touch more torque, a touch less lift then the fk7, and made for 1.4's would be the CB 2236. https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2236.htm |
|
esde |
Mon Jan 20, 2025 9:26 pm |
|
I have recently gone through the 1835 in my 65 bus....
Thick wall cylinders
Tims super stock heads cut for 8.5:1 compression
Dual 36 DRLA
It's got an old crane 282 cam thats really mild
Valve Setting; Intake 0.004" Exhaust 0.006" cold
Total lift @ cam 0.0360" @valve 0.407" Rocker arm ratio 1.13:1
Advertised Duration 282* Duration @0.050" 240*
Runs cool and pulls like it's a bigger engine. |
|
vince1 |
Sun Jul 13, 2025 1:04 pm |
|
The engine is still in plans, and plans have slightly changed. Since the stock case and crank were out of tolerance, we went to an new aluminum case and a 74 mm crank as they were at a very good price and the crank match with the "A" pistons my friend already has.
We went for a non stroker case as we won't have to modify the fan shroud and still have enough material for stroker clearance.
The 74 crank and A pistons will make an easy Deck Height setup using shims.
Are the FK7 of FK42 cams now more suited for this future 1968cc engine ? Or could you suggest us a cam to go with 1.4 Scat rockers as we already have them ...
IMO, the FK7 should make a nice and reliable engine without much valve train noise.
We aim for 8.5:1 CR with 0.04" deck and 59 cc heads (corrected Panchitos, AA 500 D port or DG063 40*35 heads are in the plans) |
|
Brian_e |
Sun Jul 13, 2025 1:20 pm |
|
I have done a couple 1968cc bus engines with a web 218, stock rockers, 9.0:1, and my 37x32 aa 500 heads. They always work good for a little bus engine.
If you must run 1.4's, I would do the fk7. And if you must do 40x35, I would do the panchito because to their very small port volume.
Brian |
|
sled |
Sun Jul 13, 2025 6:29 pm |
|
Brian_e wrote: I have done a couple 1968cc bus engines with a web 218, stock rockers, 9.0:1, and my 37x32 aa 500 heads. They always work good for a little bus engine.
If you must run 1.4's, I would do the fk7. And if you must do 40x35, I would do the panchito because to their very small port volume.
Brian
one of these engines was for me, for a customer of mine, and the engine was VERY impressive in a 1962 23 window.
I would personally be inclined to 37x33 heads, or even very good 35x32 heads, but corrected panchitos will probably be very nice as well.
Brian built me another 1968cc with hand ported 35x32 heads for another customer of mine, with a slightly milder cam (I think it was a CB 2239?) and it was also very impressive. |
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|