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Fri Mar 14, 2025 1:06 pm

After getting my dyno going, and with my limited use on it so far.... I can see how it would be very easy to fudge +20hp just in operating it. Mine has computer controlled data acquisition, and you can screw with the number just by how you feed it the water.

Just like a flow bench, other peoples numbers aren't great to compare with your own. Doing a/b comparison on the SAME equipment repeatedly is really the only way to determine if you are making gains yourself. And even then, the end number doesn't really matter. They are tools used to measure gain/loss in your own situation.

After its been measured and perfected on the flow bench, and then tuned on the dyno, THEN the racetrack is the ultimate indicator of HP. And that is only at that altitude, and weather, for only 1/4 mile at a time at WOT.

Brian

Fri Mar 14, 2025 1:27 pm

Then there is driver skill, transmission gearing, tire and suspension hook up, weather and track conditions as variables with 1/4 mile times. No test method is totally bullet proof.

Fri Mar 14, 2025 3:56 pm

Yeah. One driver can do say a 13,5 in a given car. Another driver can punch a 13,1. Which number is correct(?)
Wrt inaccuracies between dyno´s. Sure, they are there. but if we could agree on gettiong them properly calibrated, then I couldnt care less if you use the SAE 60, BHP or SAE1349J calibration, because, they are within 1,6% of each other at sea level, (The 1349J handles altitude better though)
But we are beating the same horse again, because some people cannot grasp what newer technology can do. (Poor horse)

Fri Mar 14, 2025 4:11 pm

A lot of decent input and feedback with relation to specific combos abilities and numbers from some voices that are well respected here. Can I just chime in and say let's remember to share the OPs excitement for his build regardless of what his numbers are.

Obviously we don't want to propagate false info, however let's make sure not to kill the excitement over a new build. Ultimately, if you are happy with your builder and the engine runs well that is what really matters right?

With that said, while sharing excitement it is good to be realistic about parts and potential combos. Experience with parts and builds is invaluable here so thank you. I just don't want to unintentionally be a group that steals all of someone's thunder

Cheers!

Fri Mar 14, 2025 5:13 pm

Great numbers, Victor! I’ll bet you’re super excited, I would be too.

The number that interests many people here is that peak 179HP at 6500 number. For us that like drag racing, or have an interest in it, I was going to suggest what Dave said, which is to 1/4 mile it. Why drag racing? That’s because the peak HP is up there, high up on the RPM range, at a WOT, and it sounds like the car is setup for quick acceleration (close-ratio 'box) already. And as jpaull said, that’s to back up any claims, if the OP had any interest in that at all. No big deal if not though, because so long as the OP is happy with the build, and it’s fun to drive, that’s the most important thing.

Fri Mar 14, 2025 6:44 pm

Emeraldlion wrote: ....Can I just chime in and say let's remember to share the OPs excitement for his build regardless of what his numbers are.

Obviously we don't want to propagate obvious false info, however the excitement over a new build, if you are happy with your builder, the engine runs well and ultimately you are happy with the car and build is what really matters right?

With that said, while sharing excitement it is good to be realistic about parts and potential combos. Experience with parts and builds is invaluable here so thank you. I just don't want to unintentionally be a group that steals all of someone's thunder

Cheers!

we need more of this ^^^^. lotta of you all are getting to be some negative, parade pissing mf'ers.

also, vwracerdave has a legit point otherwise there wouldn't be mathematical formulas for determining hp with 1/4 mile times, or visa versa. not sure why you people seem to make it like there's a war between Dyno and track times and it has to be one or the other, they are both just tools

Mon Mar 17, 2025 10:35 am

Victor H wrote: the motor adventure has some good and bad news.
Good news
I'm not one to trust future predictions but my builder said, "no one is going to believe your motor is making this kind of power with those heads."
I think that part has already been proven correct.
I'm of the philosophy that these forums are for sharing and learning new info, otherwise what's the point. I have no ego in this, I didn't build the motor, I'm just reporting the experience with this combination.
RPM HP
3500 98
4000 112
5000 140
6000 166
6500 179

Now I've only seen the reworked heads, briefly, when motor was apart and still warm (more on that below). From what I could feel on the intake ports, he made some modifications where I never touched the port when I was following Brian-S video. Also, I have CNC chambers but he told me he modified the chambers to flow more around the intake valve. The chambers of course had combustion products in the chamber so if wasn't evident to me what modifications had been made. I've seen hogged out chambers but this wasn't like that, so can't say what the change was.
Overall, I think the results are pretty impressive and think it will be a great street driver.

Okay, the Bad,
On the last dyno pull of the morning, he idles the motor down and then it seizes (at idle). I didn't fully understand but had something to do with the flywheel machining and the seal pulling the crank so the thrust bearing heats up and seizes the motor. I didn't see any heat discoloration on the parts that were visible.
Motor is apart, fixed, flywheel modified and no damage to the locating dowel pin and will be back together tomorrow or Friday.

Anyway, live and learn, still has been an interesting and enlightening experience.

Dyno sheet please !!
It would be interesting to see the dyno sheet. Could we also see the torque curve?

My comment would be that the power curve should go hand in hand with the RPM, which is not necessarily the case. I think that in your engine, the peak power should be around 5500 to 5800 RPM.

179 HP at the crank is an impressive number.

Sun Apr 13, 2025 5:06 am

Motor is back together and been on and off the dyno (again). Dyno load cell was replaced with new unit in the time between first dyno session and second, as it failed, and was replaced with new unit. Hope to have the motor in my bug soon, but I still need to assemble my front end and complete some re-wiring in the back. Motor was on the dyno early this week (week of April 7th) and was producing 182 HP at 6,000 RPM and 175 HP at 6,500 rpm, both are beam readings without correction. SAE corrected HP was right around 6 HP higher.

Someone said, "no one builds their motors anymore?" I've built plenty of motors but didn't have as much time as I would like and wanted something completely optimized for the street which is beyond my skill level.

Here's a listing of my prior motors. I've done lots of stock rebuilds. Here are my "hi-po" motors in order of construction. First one, 1776, (I built, in high school, ran low 17s in the 1/4 mile), then 2.0L (78x90.5, I built, ran for 60,000+ miles, never let me down, ran mid 15s on the 1/4 mile). Then two versions of 2214 cc (86x90.5, builder, 172 HP at the crank, second version 175 HP at the wheels @7,200 rpm), 2276 cc (I built, Tims heads, ran 13.90s in the 1/4 mile), then 2276 turbo (builder).

These were all street motors. The 2214s were a bit "peaky" but still plenty fun on the street, but also not much bottom-end. The turbo motor was horrible. Poor low end, wouldn't idle, lots of turbo lag, but of course big power at WOT. Was NOT fun and useless as a street motor. Drove it less than 1,000 miles and removed it.

So, goal was to have one really good street motor as one that needed nothing and had good output. The 2276 with Tims heads was probably one of the best all-around motors I've had, but then I thought turbo would be better, more power is better right? So, that motor got ruined because I didn't know what I wanted or what worked. Now back to step one for the re-do of the 2276cc.

I think it's interesting that some builders on this post, who have never built this combination all swear that this motor won't produce anything near the power, nor make peak power at anything near 6,000 rpm. One builder event sent me a detailed DM why this combination wouldn't work.

Anyway, we can't learn anything if someone isn't willing to try something "new." The builders here are comfortable with their combinations that seem to work. That's fine, more power to you, but to declare something won't work, that you've never built, and then proclaim to everyone else, who are also trying to learn something, that it basically won't work, is a bit narrow-minded.

Again, it's not "my motor," someone else built it and has their pride, skill, knowledge and experience into this build. Because you haven't done it, doesn't mean it's not possible. Being a bit humble never hurt anyone.

My car will eventually make it down the strip, but probably later this year. In the meantime, I know for a fact, that most people on this forum can tell the difference between a motor that makes peak power at 5,000 rpm and one that makes peak at 6,000 rpm. That's a difference you can feel. I won't report my seat of the pants impression, because that's meaningless, but I will get to the strip at some point. Let's have fun, enjoy life and our hobby.
Have a really packed schedule, but hope to pick up motor by the first week of May. :D

Sun Apr 13, 2025 5:28 am

To the post above mine. This is an old Stuska dyno, nothing is computerized, all the readings are beam readings. Builder has had this unit for more than 30 years, so there's nothing automated about it. Consequently, no dyno sheets or power curves.

Sun Apr 13, 2025 5:46 am

:thumbsup:
Beam readings are always roughly 3% higher than 300 rpm/sec powersweeps which has become the norm these days. But still good numbers. I suspected beam readings (Steady state) from the beginning, which was why I asked. And yes, a proper dial in of an engine can easily be a difference of 10 HP.

Wed Apr 16, 2025 8:33 pm

Great day. Lots of driving but motor is home!
More to follow.

Thu Apr 17, 2025 4:35 pm

Not sure how many times the motor was run on the dyno, but last set had the following.
Peak Torque - 168 lb ft @4,500 rpm
Peak Power - 181 HP @ 6,500 rpm

Fri Apr 18, 2025 4:41 pm

Victor H wrote: ….

I think it's interesting that some builders on this post, who have never built this combination all swear that this motor won't produce anything near the power, nor make peak power at anything near 6,000 rpm. One builder event sent me a detailed DM why this combination wouldn't work.

Anyway, we can't learn anything if someone isn't willing to try something "new." The builders here are comfortable with their combinations that seem to work. That's fine, more power to you, but to declare something won't work, that you've never built, and then proclaim to everyone else, who are also trying to learn something, that it basically won't work, is a bit narrow-minded.

Again, it's not "my motor," someone else built it and has their pride, skill, knowledge and experience into this build. Because you haven't done it, doesn't mean it's not possible. Being a bit humble never hurt anyone.
…. :D

That’s hilarious that someone DM’ed you that because ive had some ppl DM me in just the same manner, hellbent on convincing me they were right too.
Thats just this place, and the ‘common knowledge’ accepted from ppl by the ‘gurus’ that dominate the board. They may either regurgitate the common knowledge thats been passed down to them or they may have actually build ONE of something, and it didnt work well which therefore determines that no others or variations of such can possibly work either, and every attempt on anyone’s part to build that will be thwarted as quickly as possible.
I try to get this point through all the time, just because one person failed , regardless of their skill level doesnt mean someone else will and they shouldnt be discouraged from trying. Give them your “facts” but i say encourage them to try. But im just an ass Dick Head as we all know.
My best one was stroked stock bore engine , ( 85.5 x 78.4 ) all say theyre trash, peter out by 4500, bad flat spot from 2500 - 3500 ( or something around there) , and wont run any better than a stock stroke larger bore equivalent. Well, i have yet to see an 1835cc pull like this thing and it is one of my favorite N/A engines. I figure it’s a little brother to your 90.5 x 86?
Bothers me to think how many guys wanted to build similar engines and didn’t because ppl here discouraged them enough to give up on it. Thats sad.
Whats also funny is some of the guys that come out of the woodwork and DM me who build shit way beyond anything getting posted here, they just dont share because they dont want to deal with the b.s. and thats sad too.

Also , you write stroke x bore like vwracerdave. Thats funny

Sat Apr 19, 2025 12:52 pm

I'm still of the opinion that we share ideas and experience so we all can learn something.

Got rid of the Blue anodized oil filler with screw cap. The cap came unscrewed once while driving and bounced around inside of engine compartment. Then other times it would be so tight I'd have to use pliers to loosen.

This new filler from CSP (bought before US$ value went down the drain), attaches like stock filler with inside nut, uses stock oil filler cap (never had a problem with one of those) and has option for breather fitting which I chose to go with. Pretty nice set up.
Also, included couple of shop dogs, both from animal rescue :)

Tue Apr 22, 2025 2:01 pm

Motor is in! Have not installed an engine in at least 3-4 years. Pretty uneventful with only one hiccup. Getting pretty motivated to get this thing running soon.

Still have all the wiring, carbs and some other odds and ends. Biggest project is reassembly of the front-end and alignment, plus wiring under the dash. Nonetheless, very excited to get the Bug back on the road.

So the one hiccup since I'm not pulling and installing engines regularly is that I should have hooked up the driver's side valve cover breather hose to the breather on the firewall, before I slid the motor all the way on. There's no way to get a straight shot to the fitting now. Any ideas or suggestions, short of starting over?
In the photo it's the fitting on the far side of the breather box which is not visible.

Tue Apr 22, 2025 2:13 pm

Is it accessible after removing the decklid?

Tue Apr 22, 2025 4:39 pm

I found a 45 degree, 8-AN female and male end, coupler which I think will do the trick. Since it's just a breather, it's not super critical junction.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PG7K638?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

Wed Apr 23, 2025 5:11 am

Any idea what breed the dog under your hand is? We had one that looked identical to that, also a rescue but just assumed it was a mixed breed.

Sorry about the diversion from the subject... just curious...

Very nice Beetle!

Wed Apr 23, 2025 9:23 am

Thank you for the compliment. I've had the car since 2000 and it had a complete resto in 2001.
Those are the builder's dogs. The tan and white dog, is a male is thought to be a mix and the pittie, a female, is thought to be a pure-bred Bully. They've both been fixed and super well taken care of and when you're at the shop they are just walking around with what looks like a big smile on their faces :)

Sun May 11, 2025 9:23 am

Motor getting close(r).
Changed trans fluid yesterday. Hooked up oil lines and fuel, bled the clutch. Motor almost ready.
Still have to install fuel pump (up front), bleed all the brakes and replace brake fluid, install fuel pump relay and then reassemble, adjust and align front end. Still a little ways to go but getting there.