TheSamba.com :: View topic - Crankshaft Crossroads

Sat May 17, 2025 9:40 am

Thanks for your inight and experience modok!

So this is not entirely unprecedented. Gives me a little more confidence in my measuring abilities, even if not exactly great any more - I have not regularly used a micrometer in more than a decade. And I may never get to a professional level.

I did have to laugh at taking the 5th on hand filing the piston skirts to make them work; that's thinking outside the box! (if it happened - my guess is it probably did)

This really makes me wonder how many people just jam them in there in ignorant bliss and hope for the best.

Now off to find a shop with precision honing equipment that can correct these. The machinist I've been using doesn't have the equipment to truly correct the cylindricity and sizing issues. I called ACE Racing Engines in Torrance. They do some high end work, but they don't work on ACVW cylinders any more (I think they did at one point)

I'd prefer not to have to ship these out for precision fitting, but if push comes to shove I will. That said, I'm in the LA area - there should be dozens if not hundreds of machinists in the LA/Orange County area that can handle this.

Anyone got a good recommendation while I search?

Sat May 17, 2025 11:39 am

Vw cylinders are usually honed on a rod machine with an AN600 same as motorcycles cylinders.
Does anybody rebuild motorcycles in LA?
I'd hopes so
https://aera.org/member-locator/

Sat May 17, 2025 12:00 pm

modok wrote: Vw cylinders are usually honed on a rod machine with an AN600 same as motorcycles cylinders.
Does anybody rebuild motorcycles in LA?
I'd hopes so
https://aera.org/member-locator/

Sunnen block hone in a fixture or a sunnen rod hone with a large enough mandrel. I would mic the pistons carefully to see where the dimensions were off and if irregular send them back. Once they are determined to be accurate and consistent, I would match them to each cylinder. Then if I did not have .002 to .0025", I would have them honed. If someone will be doing a lot of VW cylinders they can make a bottom plate and torque plate for it that will hold it in a regular Sunnen cylinder hone.

Sat May 17, 2025 12:22 pm

Ray Valero
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpiPS4F0d7Y

Sat May 17, 2025 1:00 pm

In that video from Ray, how much material is removed? A 1/10th?

Sat May 17, 2025 1:17 pm

The video is very telling. Thanks for linking it.

Never knew about AERA. Again, thanks for linking it. Good locator tool!

Between this morning's post and now I have reached out to a place on the east side of town - LA Sleeve. They do lots of cylinder work, including motorcycles and ATVs.

We'll see what they have to say on Monday. In the meantime I will proceed with finding other options, now much easier thanks to modok.

Sat May 17, 2025 1:42 pm

Not a VW cylinder, but a Simplex Servi-Cycle cylinder, which is a little harder to do, as there is no through hole. I made a Lexan plate to hold the cylinder, and use a Lisle hand hone. I've done a bunch of these with really good results. I think it would be easy to do the same for a VW cylinder.

Sat May 17, 2025 1:57 pm

chrisflstf wrote: In that video from Ray, how much material is removed? A 1/10th?
or less
But that's what a an600 looks like and how it works, it's the most common way to do it tho of course there are many right ways and many wrong, but that is how they hone cylinders at CB and a lot of places for decades.

It uses same honing stones and shoes as a regular AN hone
Use a hose clamp on the thin bottom part of the cylinder and tighten it to squeeze .001" or so tight, so you don't end up small at the very end of the cylinder from it flexing.

I've honed thousands of motorcycle and two stroke and vw and corvair cylinders this way. Including a lot of LA SLEEVES:D
The an600 is so handy I bought my own, which I still have yet to use, as I just use the one at work.

My dreams of being unemployed just never materialized.
Yet, anyway. I can still dream.

A few years ago Blackline racing got themselves set up with the latest stuff..... to hone VW cylinders in a fixture with with diamond and cbn.
Does that work better? I expect yes, but not that much, on a basic iron cylinder.

And I also heard that AA can hone the cylinders to your desired clearance before they mail them to you, for a fair price.

The best way to do it.... is hone the cylinders shortly before use, rather than honing them years ago before traveling over on the container ship...... ALWAYS was that way, and no amount of high tech super whiz bang honing is going to change the properties of iron which make it so.

Sat May 17, 2025 4:07 pm

This gives me quite a bit to work with.

If I find myself really backed into a corner I could always go the portable rigid hone route. I'd have to really be backed into a corner to do that though.

Thanks for all the advice!

Sat May 17, 2025 6:46 pm

Reach out to bugguy1967

I can’t remember the name but he has a place that does this

Sun May 18, 2025 5:07 am

Stef at Ace was doing most of the cylinder honing for the Los Angeles guys, but he quit doing aircooled stuff, and also just packed everything to move his shop to Florida.

You might try European Machine Works. EMW does mostly T4 stuff but they offer their own cylinders, and I would guess they can do them.

Brian

Sun May 18, 2025 7:04 am

I appreciate the pointers guys.

If memory serves, Ace was doing the cylinders for Tabari. Ace was the first call I made. As Brian noted, Ace is no longer doing air cooled stuff. Sad to hear they’re joining the exodus from CA. Getting harder and harder to sustain a business here.

EMW doesn’t have the equipment; they’re the ones doing my machine work.

That’s ok I’ll pound the pavement this week. There are some options on the east side of town worth checking out.

Mon May 19, 2025 12:37 pm

Dropped the pistons and cylinders off at LA Sleeve this morning.

Reasonable pricing, not too far away.

And way better than I probably would have done with a rigid hone and a drill.

Sat May 31, 2025 3:34 pm

Got my pistons and cylinders back. They definitely look like they have a “softer” cross-hatch; not as deep or rough looking. Now to set ring gaps. Will get them super clean when it’s time for final assembly.

In the meantime, I’m giving more thought to oiling, especially since the Hoover mod thread has bubbled back up to the surface.

I’m going to run TP lifters, so the oil groove will be different than stock. Looks like they will move oil similarly to stock lifters with the grooves joined.

Should I do the case drillings too? Or will the lifters be enough to move more oil to the 1&2 side?

FF oil return to the case is ported out and sealed into place.

Looking into a Scat 1 ½ qt sump too. Will that be enough?

Got a schadek 26mm pinned pump with FF cover from CB ready to go.

Will probably get a remote cooler before this is all said and done.

Thanks!

Sat May 31, 2025 3:59 pm

Did they use a plateau hone as the final step?

Sat May 31, 2025 4:20 pm

I can only assume so. I cannot say for sure though.

They definitely have a different surface profile.