TheSamba.com :: View topic - Engine/Transmission removed where and how would you start?

Thu Jun 19, 2025 3:35 pm

I forgot to ask but is it important to I put back exactly (clocked)? Is there a woodruff key that keeps it positioned or clocked correctly? I did mark in advance in case

Thu Jun 19, 2025 3:38 pm

there is a key

Sat Jun 21, 2025 5:49 am

And be prepared, it can be a bit alarming when it pops free.

Sat Jun 21, 2025 6:21 am

Put a thin film of Ted-gel on the hub before putting it back on the crank. It will help with removal next time.

Sat Jun 21, 2025 8:01 am

i question the wisdom of lubing the snout,the taper is there to provide a mean to 'lock the hub to the shaft,to prevent it from turning on the shaft,don,t depend solely on the key.

Sat Jun 21, 2025 8:42 am

lil-jinx wrote: i question the wisdom of lubing the snout,the taper is there to provide a mean to 'lock the hub to the shaft,to prevent it from turning on the shaft,don,t depend solely on the key.

Lube will allow for a tighter fit during assembly as the force you can apply with the wimpy 8m bolt is pretty low.

Sat Jun 21, 2025 9:50 am

lil-jinx wrote: i question the wisdom of lubing the snout, the taper is there to provide a mean to 'lock the hub to the shaft, to prevent it from turning on the shaft, don't depend solely on the key.
^^^^^ this

Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:33 pm

Got the fan hub off today. I bought a 1/8" bearing plate from home depot. It was a 3x3 inch plate. My cut didn't work the way I thought it would but in the end I just used the piece I cut under the 3rd bolt. I glad I was warned about the pop. It was definitely a big pop and glad the bolt was still in to capture the hub. The 1/8 inch seemed to be perfect thickness.

It is getting very hard to work in the garage with 95deg and 80% humidity. Might be slowing down some.

And the o-ring was in place behind the hub. Since I did not see the notes on lube (add some debate I guess), I did use a little bit of oil on inside and outside of the hub where it meets the seal.

Sat Jun 21, 2025 3:48 pm

good job

Sat Jun 21, 2025 4:58 pm

lil-jinx wrote: i question the wisdom of lubing the snout,the taper is there to provide a mean to 'lock the hub to the shaft,to prevent it from turning on the shaft,don,t depend solely on the key.

If you shear that woodruff key, you have bigger problems…

Sat Jun 21, 2025 9:17 pm

THall wrote: And be prepared, it can be a bit alarming when it pops free.

Just loosen the 8m bolt a turn or two and there won't be as much excitement as there is when the bolt is fully removed.

Tue Jun 24, 2025 2:59 pm

Question for the experienced people here. What type of gasket sealant do you use. I read through a recent post by SGKENT on oil filter mount gasket and it made me wonder if I should be using some sealant with the gaskets.

For example:

Oil filter mount
Oil fill tube mount
Fuel pump

What about ring between head and jug?

Interesting results when I ask chat gpt to summarize that thread, this is the output.
https://chatgpt.com/share/685b1ff0-9c70-8007-a07a-6efa79174044

Sealants mentioned were (I have a lot of different permatex types at the moment)

Permatex MotoSeal (Grey or Black)
Yamabond / ThreeBond / Hondabond

So the big question is do you use a gasket sealant only, with a gasket or just the gasket?

Tue Jun 24, 2025 3:56 pm

I like hylamar blue.

Tue Jun 24, 2025 4:00 pm

what ray suggested worked well on the paper gasket, but I had to get the roller from Hobby Lobby and roll it on paper thin, then let it dry. Wet the gasket on the oil mount blew out before. The oil filler has no pressure. I used just a dry gasket everywhere else.

Tue Jun 24, 2025 4:21 pm

I used sriracha sauce on a Type 4 oil flange as a bush fix once. My friend sold the bus years later and that flange was bone dry.

Spend your time cleaning parts and making sure flanges are flat, free of debris, and the gaskets are CLEAN. At that point anything sticky will be fine; it’s just a matter of how you want it to behave when you clean it off the next time you’re in there. These are fancy lawn mowers, not F1 engines.

I use a non-hardening sealant exclusively on my bus because it’s easy to clean up, and the nozzle doesn’t dry up and ruin the rest of the tube.

Robbie

Tue Jun 24, 2025 5:00 pm

you mentioned the ring between the head and the jug,others may correct me,but i think you discard that ring,and don,t replace it.
i once read to used chapstick on carburetor body gaskets,it is suppose to preserve the gasket so it can be reused if you had to disassemble the carb.

Tue Jun 24, 2025 5:13 pm

lil-jinx wrote: you mentioned the ring between the head and the jug,others may correct me,but i think you discard that ring,and don,t replace it.

But ChatGPT says I need a head gasket! :shock:

Tue Jul 01, 2025 6:48 pm

Got the call from Renato from Brothers VW. He said my heads are done. Regarding the spark plug holes, he said they cut them larger size and I would need to use larger spark plugs, I forget if he said 16mm or 18mm but I purchase a set and he will send with the heads. Pictures look good, look almost new.

Now, regarding the steel head gasket, I heard one opinion about throwing them away. I do have a new set. Happy to hear more opinions yes or no.

Also, I want to come back to removing the jugs. I heard I would need new rings and hone the jugs if I do this. On a scale of 1 to 10, what is the level of difficulty.

If I do remove the jugs, what else could I inspect? Play in the rods to crankshaft bearings?

Tue Jul 01, 2025 10:09 pm

Quote: These are fancy lawn mowers, not F1 engines.

That’s getting immortalised!

Wed Jul 02, 2025 3:32 am

vw wants you to remove the shim and put one under the cylinder. Personally it isn't that hard but there are some steps involved and one has to do each carefully. I am getting ready to head to the hospital in about an hour for that surgery so I won't be around to assist. Lots of folks here can walk you thru it.

Clean all dirt away from base of cylinder

You pull each cylinder off and use something like an etching engraver to engrave the cylinder number on the bottom of each cylinder. I mark it on the bottom part that sits on the case as that is thick and I am not introducing stresses.

The snap rings are gently removed and the wrist pin removed. Push it out with a socket, Do not beat on it. A little heat may help if it is captured. Not hot enough to burn yourself. The snap rings have two sides. If you look carefully one side is rounded, one side is square. The square side always faces out. When these go back in check 3 times that they are inserted and locked in the groove.

I engrave the number of the piston on the bottom.

You remove the rings. They are sharp. You grab the ring ends with your thumbs, and support the ring, top first, with your first fingers. Gently spready the ring until it barely clears and walk it off. Especially worn ring edges are like razors so be very careful. Pay attention to the arrow on top of the piston. It goes towards the flywheel as I recall. But look that up because I could be wrong. It is 3am and I don't have time to research it.

The cylinders are fragile, do not drop or bang into each other.

The pistons and cylinders go to the machine shop. The pistons get gently glass beaded with very light pressure. They get inspected. If the skirts have collapsed, the shop can massage them back to spec with a rawhide hammer. Not a job for a rookie. They have to be measured as this is done. Take some old rings along and they can check how worn the ring lands are. If they are not too worn, the set can be used.

The shop will put a new cross hatch on them.

The pistons and cylinders get washed in hot soapy water several times then dried immediately.

New rings are used. Each ring is inserted into a cylinder and pushed down about an inch using a piston upside down. A feeler gauge is put into the gap and it is measured. The specs range is in bentley. If it is too tight, they are placed on a mill file like tweezers and filed a couple strokes. Check again. It is rare to have to do this, expecially on worn cylinders. I found that the Hastings rings fit best. Also check the clearance between the side of the ring and the ring land. The specs are in Bentley. If they are too tight then choose another brand. Grant works on factory pistons. Hastings works best on Mahle pistons.

Each ring has an up and down. Some can go either way. The oil ring has a spring in it. Follow the instructions that come with them as to up or down and how to fit the spring. The spring is critical. It must be exactly like the instructions. Meaning if it is a style that butts against each other, it cannot overlap. If it is a coil spring then the one end goes into the other.

Oil ring first, then middle then compression. They are fragile. Put them on like you took them off. Do not over spread them or they will snap.

Double check your work.

Stagger the rings. I put the oil control gap up and the others at 120 degrees.

Oil the cylinders and rings, wrist pin etc. Use a ring compressor to compress the rings and install them from the top. Figure which cylinder it will be and what direction it will go and pay attention to the arrows.

Insert the pistons from the top. If a ring catches try again. Most folks use the BUTT of a wooden hammer to tap them in. Once in push them gently until the wrist pin hole is exposed on the bottom.

Most kits have a spacer that goes under the cylinder that makes up for removing the head gasket ring. Use a small amount of black RTV around the base of each cylinder as the sealant.

Put the snap ring in on the side you can't get to. Square side out. Triple check you seated it. Put the cylinder on and align the wrist pin. You oil it too. Slide it in and put the other snap ring in square side out. Triple check it. push the cylinder down. I use some aluminum bars to hold the cylinder down put some people just cut a clean piece of PVC pipe or something they can put between a couple studs.

When all are done double check the arrows. That is pretty much it. When the heads go back on you follow the torque pattern, and do the torque in 3 stages. I come back the next morning and check them again because they will settle.

If you decide to go further than this then you will be splitting the case and you will be even deeper into the rabbit hole. It is always nice to have a completely fresh engine but there are risks. One fellow here got his push rods back from the machine shop and he forgot to clean them out. They had glass beads in them from lying around and it destroyed his new engine. So whatever you do, it is a journey and not a destination. Good luck.