TheSamba.com :: View topic

Fri Jun 13, 2025 7:03 pm

How is the quality of Engle vs CB Performance? Does one start off with better blanks or is their end product better? Looking at the Engle FK8 & the CB 2288 which are almost identical. CB does list their lifters as "lightweight", but are they lighter than the Engle or is it just advertising? Can any competent machine shop clearance them for a stroker(82mm with h-beam rods)?

Thanks in advance.

Fri Jun 13, 2025 7:09 pm

CB lightweight lifters are exactly that.

Engle lifters are probably the heaviest out there.

Quality and accuracy nowadays goes to the CB cams.

Personally I’d use the CB lightweights on a Web cam and skip the other cam brands.

Fri Jun 13, 2025 7:26 pm

b-man wrote:

Personally I’d use the CB lightweights on a Web cam and skip the other cam brands.

What is the Web "hard weld" and is it worth the extra $290?

Fri Jun 13, 2025 9:21 pm

I never tried the hard weld.

Usually to all the cams they do a...well, actually they never did tell me exactly, but I think it's a mild ion nitride treatment, and that's a lot of why the WEB cams cost more and hold up better.

Fri Jun 13, 2025 9:34 pm

My go to for a hot street engine is a Web cam and Thorsten Pieper tool steel lifters:

https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-t...el-lifters

I’d buy the $380 tool steel lifter long before considering $290 hard welded cam lobes.

Soon having a 2276 built using the tool steel lifters for a hot street ‘57 oval window, equipped with a close ratio transaxle. Web 86b+3 cam (similar to Engle FK-10), Tims Stage 2 heads and 48IDAs on vintage Skat-Trak manifolds.

For a nice street engine, a Web cam and CB 28mm lightweights.

Currently have a 2276 bus engine in the works, Web 163, CB lightweights and 44IDF carbs.

Fri Jun 13, 2025 9:37 pm

If you get a Web Cam built and an EP-12 blank then you can use it with the CB Lightweight lifters.

Dan sells them
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2233833

Sat Jun 14, 2025 8:29 am

I have not seen a difference in the quality of the cam blank and grinder (Engle, Web, SLR)

Do certain manufacturers have better grinds? Yes, but that depends on your use.

Engle lifters are heavy, thick heads, but work well with Engle cams.

Sat Jun 14, 2025 9:33 am

The CB2288 is $149 and matching CB lightweight lifters are $179. The CB cams and CB lightweight lifters have been a proven combo. They are not cheap cams/lifters. Choosing CB is not being cheap, its paying extra compared to others. its $330 total.

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2288.htm?s...mux4C2wmNG

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1537.htm

You can spend $380 for tool steel and $240 for the web cam, this would be $620, which is basicaly the same as TWO complete CB Cam and lightweight lifter sets.

You can re-use the tool steel lifters, but even if you re use one time, and buy a new web cam for your 2nd time of "re useing" the lifters, you would be at $860.

A guy would need to repurpose his tool steel web cam combo on his 3rd web cam before it would make sense.

I know the tool steel is super cool, but CB cam/CB lightweights just work, its hard to say there is a issue that needs to be fixed.

Sat Jun 14, 2025 1:09 pm

Agreed.
Whether to use the FK8/43, 2288 or the 86b would be more towards which behavior you wnat as well as which engine combo. The 86b IS the quietest running of the lot. It is also the one with the highest hp potential in the right combo. HOWEVER, I for one would not use it exclusively as one size fits all. For instance, if we are talking a nippy 1914 street engine I would probably chose the FK8 due to its slightly better lower rpm power. If we are talking a similar 2275 my first choice would be the 86b.

Sat Jun 14, 2025 1:12 pm

In my experience cbs cams have a 50% chance of matching the specs within 4 degrees, and a 50% chance of being ground with the right taper and lash ramps.

I'm glad to hear they have improved.

Sat Jun 14, 2025 7:02 pm

You could also look at Nowak and Raptor cams, but they are another level of cost.

At least the Raptor cams come with match lifters

Sun Jun 15, 2025 9:22 am

I am torn between these three cams web 86b, cb 2288 or engle fk8 for my 2332.
Which one will last longest, and is easiest on the valvetrain, and work best in lower rpm? On paper differences are marginal.

Sun Jun 15, 2025 9:30 am

For the longest living valve train, 86b any day.
Best lower rpm torque FK8.
Best of both worlds, 86b advanced 2-3 degrees.
The 2288 is right between those two. More rpm power than the FK8, doesnt quite reach the 86b.

Sun Jun 15, 2025 6:59 pm

jpaull wrote: The CB2288 is $149 and matching CB lightweight lifters are $179. The CB cams and CB lightweight lifters have been a proven combo. They are not cheap cams/lifters. Choosing CB is not being cheap, its paying extra compared to others.

You're right along my line of thinking. The CB is allegedly a FK8 copy but it costs more. That's what got me thinking about it.

Alstrup wrote: Agreed.
Whether to use the FK8/43, 2288 or the 86b would be more towards which behavior you wnat as well as which engine combo. The 86b IS the quietest running of the lot. It is also the one with the highest hp potential in the right combo. HOWEVER, I for one would not use it exclusively as one size fits all. For instance, if we are talking a nippy 1914 street engine I would probably chose the FK8 due to its slightly better lower rpm power. If we are talking a similar 2275 my first choice would be the 86b.

Motor will be a thick wall 2180 in a 63 Bug. it will have 48 IDFs, A1 Sidewinder exhaust, & Tims S1 or S2 heads. Looking for a fun weekend cruiser that we can take to the strip 1 or 2 times a year. Maybe play on the street with a few other Bugs.

Sun Jun 15, 2025 7:13 pm

karolp wrote: I am torn between these three cams web 86b, cb 2288 or engle fk8 for my 2332.
Which one will last longest, and is easiest on the valvetrain, and work best in lower rpm? On paper differences are marginal.

I was originally thinking the CB 2243, 2246, or 2250 with 1.25 ratio rockers. I'm learning that they seem to be hard on the lifter bores & it was recommended that I look into the FK8 of 86b. Hopefully the answers you seek will help me too

Mon Jun 16, 2025 5:17 am

Alstrup wrote: For the longest living valve train, 86b any day.
Best lower rpm torque FK8.
Best of both worlds, 86b advanced 2-3 degrees.
The 2288 is right between those two. More rpm power than the FK8, doesnt quite reach the 86b.

That is what i wanted to know, thanks.
Do You know where is the best source of web cams in EU? Preferably pre-cleranced for stroker with a set of matching lifters. Most vendors only have webcams for type4 engines.

Mon Jun 16, 2025 6:00 am

When looking at that group of cams; 2288, FK-8, 86B. Should the FK-44 be considered as well? I am looking at the same group of cams for a 2387 (de-tuning)

Olli

Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:44 am

Olli from NJ wrote: When looking at that group of cams; 2288, FK-8, 86B. Should the FK-44 be considered as well? I am looking at the same group of cams for a 2387 (de-tuning)

Olli
I was looking at the 43 & 44 last night. Unfortunately I'm not smart enough to know the differences between then and the standard FK8.

Mon Jun 16, 2025 11:57 am

If in EU, I would contact Nowak. JN4 or JN5 cam

karolp wrote: Alstrup wrote: For the longest living valve train, 86b any day.
Best lower rpm torque FK8.
Best of both worlds, 86b advanced 2-3 degrees.
The 2288 is right between those two. More rpm power than the FK8, doesnt quite reach the 86b.

That is what i wanted to know, thanks.
Do You know where is the best source of web cams in EU? Preferably pre-cleranced for stroker with a set of matching lifters. Most vendors only have webcams for type4 engines.

Wed Jun 18, 2025 7:58 am

Olli from NJ wrote: When looking at that group of cams; 2288, FK-8, 86B. Should the FK-44 be considered as well? I am looking at the same group of cams for a 2387 (de-tuning)

Olli

My understanding is that the FK-4X series require lifter bore bushings and are harder on the valvetrain due to faster cam ramp profiles.

I used to have a 86C in my 2276, then a CB2289. Nice cams but I much prefer my current Webcam 86b for street driving and no track. The engine with my 44x38 Mid D heads from Brother and 48 idas with 42 JPM venturies is really smooth to drive and as soon as I hit the throttle pedal it is really lively, evenmore so when the revs hit the 4000rpm level :D