TheSamba.com :: View topic - Thinking of trying to build an engine for my type 3

Mon Jun 30, 2025 1:56 pm

I've been working on my Squareback a lot lately and that's got me down an engine building rabbit's hole on youtube. It seems like it would be a lot of fun and I'd learn a lot. I put together a build list and was hoping for some advice. One thing I'm struggling a bit with is engine tin. I was hoping to get a full set so that I could build the engine while keeping my existing stock engine in my car, but type 3 tin sure seems in short supply these days, and as far as I can tell, nobody is manufacturing anything in the aftermarket.

So I was thinking of going kind of big. At first I was thinking I'd do just a 1776, but when I priced that out it seemed like it wasn't THAT much cheaper than going with a stroker, and so I just kind of thought, well, in for a penny, in for a pound.

So I came up with the following for 94x82 (2276) build. I'd like to do most of the work myself, although I realize there's a bit I'd need a machine shop for, but I think that's kind of minimal (as far as I can see just the long cylinders, and then having the fan balanced, although I'm not sure the latter is necessary).

EMPI Dual VW Carburetor Kit - 44 HPMX - Type 3 Dual Port
1158 White Rhino Aluminum Super Case (94 Bore) 7.0mm Deck (10mm studs)
Volksracer Crankshaft – VW Pin, Type I Main (84 mm Stroke)
Engle W-110 Cam
Engle VW High Performance Lifters - Set of 8 - Type 1 1200-1600
SCAT 4340 5.394" (5.400") H-Beam Connecting Rods, Type 1 Journals, 3/8" ARP 2000 Bolts, Balanced, Set of 4, 102502-3
AA Performance VW 94mm 2276cc Racing Forged Piston & Long Cylinder Kit
Oil Pump, 30mm Gears, Full Flow, Flat Cam Schadek
Stage 1 Clutch Kit, Kennedy Pressure Plate, Rigid Disc with Late Throwout Bearing
SCAT 200mm Forged Chromoly Lightweight Flywheel 12.5 lbs., 8 Dowel
1673 Panchito 044™ (40 x 35.5) 94 Bore (each)
1577 Forged 1.4:1 Rocker Arms
123 Ignition TUNE+-4-R-V-V
Scat Pair of Bolt-on Aluminum Valve Covers
Billet Aluminum Full Flow Oil Pump Cover, Blue Anodized
Cylinder Head Tins PAIR (Dualport Shrouds), Black
Elring Engine Gasket Set with Main Seal, made in Germany
10mm Cut-to-Length Dual-Port 4140 Stud Kit (190m)

I'm sure there's several things in here which are not advisable/compatible with a type 3, or things which don't really suit the build. I've never built an engine before, so this would be something I'm doing to learn and because it seems really fun. Any advice would be appreciated.

Mon Jun 30, 2025 2:18 pm

dommer wrote: I've never built an engine before
Building a 2276 as your first engine will be a challenge.

There's A LOT of measuring, multiple mock ups and making adjustments to parts.

You simply can just bolt everything together.

I suggest you read this topic first and then ask specific questions.
1800cc (1799cc) Engine Build

Mon Jun 30, 2025 2:30 pm

I dont think you going down the wrong road ... just a few suggestions

STD length 94mm cylinders, and Icon's . :wink: if you went with c's you could run a long rod and save yourself the headache of a wider motor.

there are so many better options than a Engle 110, i would go 120 at a minimum but there are so many better options.

most folks will say stay away from the 30mm pump.. i tend to agree, you will need a pressure relief cover to make that one livable which means more cutting into your fan shroud .

i also think you are limiting yourself with the panchitos...

you will want to run a external cooler above your transmission and a remote oil filter also.

personally this is what i am running and im pretty happy with it as it was a budget stroker.

as41 case
cb 76mm crank lightened flywheel
5.400 rods
ICON forged pistons* (custom compression height since i work for UEM)
30mm pump , berg pressure relief cover
generic big valve heads that had to be hand ported.
CB 2239* cam (i'm pretty sure thats it,its just a step above a 110ish cam
std rockers on solid shafts
steel pushrods.
Dual 44 chinese webers

ends up being a 2110cc
in a 69 fastback. i live at 5K altitude and it pulls the local passes no problem 8-9K altitude

its a fun engine in this car. and i cant stress enough that this was a budget build. if i had the perfect budget i would go with an aluminum case like you cb 1423 cnc ported cylinder heads , etc.

everyone always wants the biggest they can get there hands on at first.. but only a few ask the question of... is it truly necessary? thats for you to decide

Mon Jun 30, 2025 2:40 pm

The thread you recommended is amazing, thanks.

Mon Jun 30, 2025 3:21 pm

The no name copies are a safer bet then the HPMX copies, and the no name copies are $150 for 2 carbs.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/387581450396?_skw=weber+i...BMhvbprfhl

The CB2239 with 1.25 rockers or CB2236 1.4 rockers would be a little better then a 110.
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2236.htm?s...UmOCctbE-F

Going with rockers with the adjuster on the pushrod side would be reliable, and the rockers . The 1.38 would be great and only $142 for the set
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-valvetrain/products/1-3-ratio-rockers

I would buy the AA 92thickwalls. They are a very durable set that is affordable and well suited for a heavier type 3 and your 40x35 head choice. Not to discount anything VWporscheGT3 Arecommends. His choice is high quality and a great choice for a bit more cash.

Mon Jun 30, 2025 3:28 pm

Make sure you do another month of reading BEFORE you order ANY parts.

Are you planning to buy measuring tools and learn how to use them?

Are you going to be really pissed off when nothing arrives correct, and most parts will need some form of massaging?

Do you have the patients to put it together, and pull it back apart NO LESS than 8-10 times just to make sure things are correct?

Do you want heat with this thing?

Are you planning t road trip it, or just rip around town and get ice cream?

These days with clearanced cases, properly building a 1776cc, is really no different than building a 2332cc. You just need to check a few things.

I agree with everything Trevor said. If I was building an engine for a T3 cruiser, I would do this.

STD height CB aluminum case, 8mm studs
Tims S1 heads
CB 82mm crank VW journal
CB H beams 5.4 VW journal
I like ICONS's, and I would use them, but regular AA94B's will work also.
Web 163 cam
.042" deck height, and 9.0:1 compression
1.3 rockers
CB ultra light lifters
PDowns Shockwave ign kit.
CB linkage and T3 manifold kit
China 44 IDF's
VSpeed muffler.
light flywheel
KEP S1 pressure plate Daiken disk

It will go together nicely, have a bunch of low end power, but still rev. You will need to run an external cooler and filter.

DO NOT think you will be able to toss it all together in a weekend. I would guess on average, a typical guy on here in his garage will spend 2-3 months of evenings getting an engine put together correctly. That is if all goes pretty well, and noting needs to be sent off for extra machine work.

Good luck, and ask plenty of questions. That 1800cc build thread is a real life example of how an engine build really goes. And he had it easy with a T1. You will have the T3 issues working against you.

Brian

Mon Jun 30, 2025 4:05 pm

Note that Brian advised using a STD height case.

To avoid issues with cooling tin fitment on a Type 3 you absolutely must strive for a stock width engine above all.

Mon Jun 30, 2025 4:45 pm

I second the Web 163 bbut with 1,3 rockers.
Then a set of Tims stage 2 heads.

This is an awesome combbo on a big displacement with short intakes.

Mon Jun 30, 2025 9:48 pm

110 is not a ratio rocker cam, no 1.4s unless you change cam, Brian's choice is solid, WEB 218 might be fun in a heavy Type 3 (also not ratio rocker). I also prefer Tims Heads (Stage 1 Plus for this one)

Mon Oct 13, 2025 9:03 am

So it's been awhile as I've been putting together parts, and honestly the heat and mosquitoes in the summer in Atlanta make automotive work deeply unpleasant. In the interim I've now assembled the parts I need with a few missing pieces, and have pulled the old motor out of my Type 3. There's nothing wrong with the motor I pulled out, but I chose to build one from parts just for the experience.

The case I got was from a Type 1, and I am building a motor for a Type 3. I was (perhaps incorrectly) under the impression that I could use a case from a Type 1 to put into my Type 3, as I thought they were essentially the same except for the fan and oil cooler being sort of upright on the Type 1, and down low on the Type 3. But I noticed something which has me concerned that maybe I can't use this Type 1 case in my type 3.

The type 1 case has what looks to be a permanent dipstick tube machined into the case itself. Meanwhile, my type 3 motor has an oil fill tube and a dipstick tube as an additional piece which bolts onto the engine. It's the badly painted blue thing in the picture below.

So am I just wrong and I cannot use this type 1 case in my type 3? Or is there some adapter I could buy? Or could I have a machine shop just cut off the existing permanent dipstick tube and add in an adapter to make it work with a Type 3?

And are there other problems I'll come across? I'm considering just taking the loss on this type 1 case and buying an aftermarket one which is advertised to work in a Type 3 application.

Mon Oct 13, 2025 10:14 am

Glenn wrote: I suggest you read this topic first and then ask specific questions.
1800cc (1799cc) Engine Build

Your sixes are upside- down. I'm thinkin' 1766 I mean 1776.

I would find a nice rock under a nice tree and meditate for a while on how I was going to keep it cool.

I have a Type 1 built in a Type 3 case somewhere in my pile. It's been sitting there for so long it must be all white magnesium oxide by now. Looks like burnt highway flares.

O,P, what you want is a "universal case". I have a few of those, too but I'm jealously hoarding them.

With the money you'll be throwing at a 2332 IMHO you should lower your sights, build it smaller and build it right.

I'm old school. We used to build smaller motors with more German parts. You can build a motor now that's almost 100% aftermarket. Still, the new stuff isn't better than the old stuff. Lotta old timers will tell you the same thing.

.
.

Mon Oct 13, 2025 11:29 am

Dusty, the link is to an 88x74 build,
But now I’ve got Two Sixes Upside down by Dropkick Murphys in my head, so thats good.

Mon Oct 13, 2025 11:38 am

Mikedrevguy wrote: Dusty, the link is to an 88x74 build,
But now I’ve got Two Sixes Upside down by Dropkick Murphys in my head, so thats good.

Oh, man! There's a Bottle Rockets tune that's a perfect segue out of your Murphys. For the dub mix doncha know?

I'll leave you with this one until I find the one I'm thinkin' of.

.
.

Mon Oct 13, 2025 1:39 pm

Here we go. It's a perfect segue to Two Sixes about 20 seconds in.

Aw, crap. Click the handy "Play on YouTube" link.

Apologies for the hijack. Carry on!

.
.

Mon Oct 13, 2025 3:52 pm

I looked at your pics. Yes, since you have a late model with an engine hanger bar, you need a type 3 case. You can jerry rig an adapter, I've done it but it's a half ass solution. There's also the oil cooler case step stud you will need, and you'll need a way to add the oil. your case has an oil pressure sender in a place it will interfere, that will need plugged. It can all be done but since you haven't started, and are already contemplating not using this case, safe yourself the frustration. My advice anyway...

Mon Oct 13, 2025 7:37 pm

Glenn wrote: dommer wrote: I've never built an engine before
Building a 2276 as your first engine will be a challenge.

There's A LOT of measuring, multiple mock ups and making adjustments to parts.

You simply can just bolt everything together.

I suggest you read this topic first and then ask specific questions.
1800cc (1799cc) Engine Build

That’s Glenn. Good thread, lots of good info. Especially since I’m about to embark on my first build.

I have a clearanced AS41 case, crank and rods for a 2109. I have another AS41 case that was just machined, a crank, rods and P&Cs for a 1776. Ima go 1776 and learn before I try a stroker.

Tue Oct 14, 2025 5:51 am

Yes there are issues with trying to use a type 1 case in a type 3. The other way around... not so bad. The biggest one in my mind is the lack of mustache bar mounts. There are work arounds for the rest.

Also I have serious doubts about the PDowns Shockwave ign kit fitting a type 3. It's pretty fat. I know it will not fit a type 4 with the stock cooling system.

Tue Oct 14, 2025 7:57 am

*taptap* is this thing on??

Whoo!

I'm very familiar with this story... :roll:

Newbie gets all fired up to try his first engine build and decides to build a huge stroker as a first try.
Gets all fired up looking at cool parts for sale...

An 82 crank costs the same as a 78 crank, so...

Newbie didn't even bother to answer the Real First Questions You Ask posted by Brian_e above.

Things like... Do you want heat.. :roll:

Do you have a core engine you have torn down and inspected?

A type 3 has many quirks and specific things that are rarely still right 40-50 years on.
Things like that rubber hub center of the fan, or all that t-stat linkage and parts.
So many of these engines are running around (briefly) with missing cooling tin.

Just having the lower-end spin-balanced can be the best thing for engine life and power,
But nobody mentions that, because there's nothing pretty to sell.

A big problem with buying a bunch of Chinese parts for your first build,
Is that it takes experience to spot the wrong things that are wrong from improper manufacture.
While German parts being re-machined will have certain things to watch out for,
China stuff will have things wrong you never might have guessed!

By the time you struggle through the many challenges of building a large-displacement performance engine,
Your appetite for sussing details will be small.
Neglecting things like cooling, fueling, tune will pretty much kill a big engine in short order.

So,
If you want to embark on this grand adventure with the goal of learning something and maybe doing it over a couple of times have at it.

If you expect to enjoy driving it around for a while,
Build a mild engine.
Get your tool set built up, learn the basics on high-quality proven parts, and get an engine that is going to run and make you happy.

If it really doesn't cut it performance-wise later on, you'll be ready to build bigger, with the resources and knowledge, tools and spares, to do so successfully.

Here's one i did:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=692654&highlight=beater

No, it doesn't come with bragging rights.
Won't sound like it's really fast talking about it at a show.
But it runs cool, has functioning heaters, is still together years later and I'd drive it to Colorado tomorrow.
It does not have leaky heads, low idle oil pressure, vibration that cracks tins and a pool of oil underneath it.
More importantly,
It's not in a closet still unassembled,
Or in the car dead needing done again.

Show real respect to the craft, and it will reciprocate.
Think you're the lucky one and can get away with cutting corners,
And you'll learn otherwise.

OK,
rant mode off.
/rant

Back to the regularly scheduled program.

Put a Web 86C in it!
I have one in my 2276 and it hauls ass!
:P

Tue Oct 14, 2025 8:02 am

richparker wrote: Glenn wrote: dommer wrote: I've never built an engine before
Building a 2276 as your first engine will be a challenge.

There's A LOT of measuring, multiple mock ups and making adjustments to parts.

You simply can just bolt everything together.

I suggest you read this topic first and then ask specific questions.
1800cc (1799cc) Engine Build

That’s Glenn. Good thread, lots of good info. Especially since I’m about to embark on my first build.

I have a clearanced AS41 case, crank and rods for a 2109. I have another AS41 case that was just machined, a crank, rods and P&Cs for a 1776. Ima go 1776 and learn before I try a stroker.

^^^Smart Man^^^

Tue Oct 14, 2025 8:04 am

Brian_e wrote: Make sure you do another month of reading BEFORE you order ANY parts.

Are you planning to buy measuring tools and learn how to use them?

Are you going to be really pissed off when nothing arrives correct, and most parts will need some form of massaging?

Do you have the patients to put it together, and pull it back apart NO LESS than 8-10 times just to make sure things are correct?

Do you want heat with this thing?

Are you planning t road trip it, or just rip around town and get ice cream?

These days with clearanced cases, properly building a 1776cc, is really no different than building a 2332cc. You just need to check a few things.

I agree with everything Trevor said. If I was building an engine for a T3 cruiser, I would do this.

STD height CB aluminum case, 8mm studs
Tims S1 heads
CB 82mm crank VW journal
CB H beams 5.4 VW journal
I like ICONS's, and I would use them, but regular AA94B's will work also.
Web 163 cam
.042" deck height, and 9.0:1 compression
1.3 rockers
CB ultra light lifters
PDowns Shockwave ign kit.
CB linkage and T3 manifold kit
China 44 IDF's
VSpeed muffler.
light flywheel
KEP S1 pressure plate Daiken disk

It will go together nicely, have a bunch of low end power, but still rev. You will need to run an external cooler and filter.

DO NOT think you will be able to toss it all together in a weekend. I would guess on average, a typical guy on here in his garage will spend 2-3 months of evenings getting an engine put together correctly. That is if all goes pretty well, and noting needs to be sent off for extra machine work.

Good luck, and ask plenty of questions. That 1800cc build thread is a real life example of how an engine build really goes. And he had it easy with a T1. You will have the T3 issues working against you.

Brian

^^^Look at all of these pertinent and important questions gone unanswered^^^

Will our OP have success in his endeavor?
Hhhmmm.....
:-k :-k :-k :-k :-k :-k :-k