TheSamba.com :: View topic - What is acceptable engine oil temperature range?

Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:44 pm

Folks,
I have a 1776 with dual kadrons, all stock tin with cooling flaps/thermostat in place, new engine seals and such and have a VDO oil temp gauge installed. Sending unit is on bottom of engine (cant remember exact name, but where the oil pressure thingy plug used to be.....) 009 set at 30 degrees total advance. 041 heads/balanced crank/external oil filter (using fram HP version of PH8).

My car is a 68 Ghia Cabrio, and I notice that with the top down, in the summer, she runs a little warmer. (probably due to increased drag and decreased airflow over vents)

What is an acceptable running temperature. She will get up to 200 on extended highway runs in the summer with the top down. Is that ok?

Chris

Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:51 pm

the way i think when driving my hot running 1642cc split westy:

160 floor it!
180 ideal
200 is nothing
220 start watching and adjusting your driving style, ease up a bit
240 get concerned but keep driving (gently)
260 now your in the ugh-oh range...take evasive cooling measures!
280 you should have considerable loss of compression and a bad feeling in your gut
300 expect some engine damage...

Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:55 pm

Thats funny Mark, I LOL at work!

Anyone else??

Chris

Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:30 pm

180-210 is normal

220 is hot

240 is turn the engine off

Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:33 pm

I say you want it to be about 200-220 most of the time to get the water by-product of combustion out of the crankcase.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 4:31 pm

180-230 is acceptable...

Actually I have personally driven a Type I engine across country with an oil temp of near 300 the entire trip.. I stopped and changed the oil 4 times along the way and when the engine was torn down I found the issue, but no heat related damage! It looked like any half way built TI would...

Hot oil breaks down the oil faster and thats what kills parts! If you keep it changed you could actually keep it alive...

BTW it had 300 degree temps because some idiot used a cracked case that had been welded around the cooler flange and the oil was passing right past the cooler!

In some of my cooling system tests the test engine hit 300 for 20+ minutes and even after all that hell on the dyno it never had a failure.... As long as you can retain pressure and DO NOT LET IT IDLE when its that hot, or miss a shift and lug it you'll be okay..... Not real good but it'll live.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:10 pm

marklaken wrote: the way i think when driving my hot running 1642cc split westy:

160 floor it!
180 ideal
200 is nothing
220 start watching and adjusting your driving style, ease up a bit
240 get concerned but keep driving (gently)
260 now your in the ugh-oh range...take evasive cooling measures!
280 you should have considerable loss of compression and a bad feeling in your gut
300 expect some engine damage...

I pretty much live by that philosophy my self. I've had my oil up to 250 but that was climbing out of Indio CA in the middle of summer heading back to PHX in a 66 Westy running lean. You better believe I let that motor cool down after I got done climbing that hill.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:16 pm

It also depends on where your sender is.

You'll get different readings if it's in the sump plate or dip stick or other location.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:30 pm

230 degrees is the critical point for oil temp in any air cooled motor.

Any aftermarket temp guage could be 20 degrees off (too high or too low). where you mount the sender will make a difference. You will change the accuracy of any guage if you have poor wiring with bad connections.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:42 pm

Mine is mounted on the bottom of the engine where the spring loaded bypass valve thingy is. Is that a good location?

Very encouraging on the temps, I thought 200 was hot but it sounds ok.

Is my timing OK?

Chris

Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:58 pm

I've heard that many temp gauges are not accurate. My Squareback has the back end of the case, lower left part, drilled and tapped for the sender. I checked the VDO temp gauge by getting a candy thermometer, tying a string to it, and lowering it down the oil filler tube with the engine hot and running (you can do this on a Type 3). Gauge and thermometer were within a couple degrees of each other.

Of course, this would not work on a Type 1.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:15 pm

Just my opinion synthetic oil can withstand higher temps.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:31 pm

Absolutely... And for much longer periods of time..

Its all I run, religously.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 7:33 pm

gt1953 wrote: Just my opinion synthetic oil can withstand higher temps.

Not only can it withstand higher temperatures but since it is better at lubricating it generates less heat from friction. I run Mobil 1 0W40 from April to October. Then I switch to Mobil 1 5W30.

I live in Miami, Florida and drive my 70 beetle everyday. Good luck.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:55 pm

akeyzoo wrote:
I thought 200 was hot but it sounds ok.

100c (212F) is just about perfect. Having you oil any cooler than that leads to that gross yellowish white slime under your oil cap and other places in the engine.

Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 pm

Jake Raby wrote: 180-230 is acceptable...

Actually I have personally driven a Type I engine across country with an oil temp of near 300 the entire trip.. I stopped and changed the oil 4 times along the way and when the engine was torn down I found the issue, but no heat related damage! It looked like any half way built TI would...

Hot oil breaks down the oil faster and thats what kills parts! If you keep it changed you could actually keep it alive...

BTW it had 300 degree temps because some idiot used a cracked case that had been welded around the cooler flange and the oil was passing right past the cooler!

In some of my cooling system tests the test engine hit 300 for 20+ minutes and even after all that hell on the dyno it never had a failure.... As long as you can retain pressure and DO NOT LET IT IDLE when its that hot, or miss a shift and lug it you'll be okay..... Not real good but it'll live.

300 degrees, for 20 minutes, sounds like you had that good ol snake oil. :lol:

Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:11 pm

Nope, 20/50...... LOL

Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:37 am

Speaking of (true) synthetic oil, G Berg does not recommend it and Amsoil, the maker of synthetic oil, does not recommend it for air cooled VWs because it retains the heat and does not dissapate it. Oil is one of the methods that VW uses to help cool the engine.

Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:56 am

Thats all Bullshit!

I have tested 7 different synthetics on the dyno and 5 of them in my personal cars.

When Berg did his writings the ONLY synthetic readuily available was Amsoil.... Amsoil sucked then and still sucks now. Even they know this and thats the reason why they don't recommend it.

I recently went 17,000 miles (almost a solid year) without changing the oil in my 912E and when I droppped the sump plate and cut the filter open there was no metal present particles present at all!

Porsche has recommended synthetics (Mobil 1) for the 911 for over 20 years and last time I checked that was an aircooled engine (LOL)

Nothing on the planet works like Royal Purple in our engines, I run it in every car I own and they are all aircooled.

Synthetic oil has come along ways since Berg did those writings- they need to be revised and re-tested just like the compression ratio statements.

BTW- if synthetic oils retain heat, how come I have seen oil temps drop up to 40 degrees when swapping from conventional oil to a synthetic in the same test on the dyno?? Same RPM, same load, same tuning, same ambient temps..... If they retain heat wouldn't that make for HOTTER oil temps?

I ran conventional oil in my Bus for the first 5,000 miles after I built the 2109 for it. I needed an external cooler to keep the oil temps acceptable at high RPM on the freeway. As soon as I swapped to Royal Purple I was able to remove the external cooler 100% and now I run no more than 215 oil temps running 4400RPM at 80MPH towing my beetle- and thats with 9:1 static CR....

Synthetics work and amsoil still sucks.

Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:57 am

Jake Raby wrote: Thats all Bullshit!

I have tested 7 different synthetics on the dyno and 5 of them in my personal cars.

When Berg did his writings the ONLY synthetic readuily available was Amsoil.... Amsoil sucked then and still sucks now. Even they know this and thats the reason why they don't recommend it.

I recently went 17,000 miles (almost a solid year) without changing the oil in my 912E and when I droppped the sump plate and cut the filter open there was no metal present particles present at all!

Porsche has recommended synthetics (Mobil 1) for the 911 for over 20 years and last time I checked that was an aircooled engine (LOL)

Nothing on the planet works like Royal Purple in our engines, I run it in every car I own and they are all aircooled.

Synthetic oil has come along ways since Berg did those writings- they need to be revised and re-tested just like the compression ratio statements.

BTW- if synthetic oils retain heat, how come I have seen oil temps drop up to 40 degrees when swapping from conventional oil to a synthetic in the same test on the dyno?? Same RPM, same load, same tuning, same ambient temps..... If they retain heat wouldn't that make for HOTTER oil temps?

I ran conventional oil in my Bus for the first 5,000 miles after I built the 2109 for it. I needed an external cooler to keep the oil temps acceptable at high RPM on the freeway. As soon as I swapped to Royal Purple I was able to remove the external cooler 100% and now I run no more than 215 oil temps running 4400RPM at 80MPH towing my beetle- and thats with 9:1 static CR....

Synthetics work and amsoil still sucks.

Ditto.