New Vintage Speed Exhaust with Leaky Flanges

[krs.br79]

Hello, I just recently purchased a new Vintage Speed Sport exhaust for my 63' with a 1600 engine. The problem I am running into, from my first initial install is pretty much every flange leaked once everything was bolted up. I tried various sequences to try and tighten everything down, and to no avail things still leak.

When I pulled the exhaust off and checked the flanges, they were tweaked a little. Now I'm sure me screwing with these for countless hours have taken the true flatness out of the flange. But they leaked right out of the box, so something was up initially.

Anyways, I ended up searching around for some thicker gaskets, and the best I could find were some graphite compression gaskets from CB performance. Well, the two flanges I put these gaskets on (flange adapters to heat exchanger flange) sealed up nicely. I would have jumped on the chance to get them for the other four flanges, but they do not make them in the size I need.

So, in a last ditch attempt, I gooped the gaskets up with high temp RTV and let it cure according to the directions. The flanges still leak.

From what I can gather, the exhaust flanges take a 45mm diameter gasket, not a standard sized gasket.

Here are the flanges in question (both sides leak)

Gasket for said flanges

Largest compression gasket I found

Mess I've created

So, I am hoping to get a new perspective on some ideas of what to do now. I like the exhaust, it sounds great, looks good, but for the price and how much time I've wasted screwing around with it, I'm about ready to put the damn stinger back on. I hate to take the exhaust to a exhaust shop and have them hack it up, as it's yet another expense I was not hoping to pay. So any ideas out there I'd appreciate it.

[krs.br79]

Looks like I may have found the company that makes the material CB uses. Remflex Exhaust Gaskets at http://catalog.remflex.com/ has a lot of options, even selling sheets of the material.

[61SNRF]

#1 Hope you have informed your vendor about the fit/leakage issues, for that money it should be a simple bolt on.

#2 RTV should have sealed the leaks, it's has worked to fill and seal an 1/8" gap for me once. Be sure to read instructions, apply a 1/4" bead around the flange and let it cure for 15-20 minutes before installing.

#3 A local muffler shop may have a selection of gaskets to choose from, faster than point, click and ship.
_________________
-Bruce

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[krs.br79]

[raul arrese]

Wow they told you to use a paste , NO WAY !!! you need to either get the - exhaust exchanged or have the warped flanges ground down or repaired ..

[Cusser]

Defective, return it and complain.

Not able to do the purpose for which it is intended, every state has regulations of merchantability. For example: a light bulb must light up.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[rcooled]

[krs.br79]

[rcooled]

With a muffler installation, I don't think there's much room for 'user error'. Either it fits, or it doesn't. It's not like you had to assemble any part of it and you could've put it together wrong. The heads and heat exchangers on your motor can only go together one way, or you'd have more serious problems to worry about. I'm assuming that you had some other muffler on that motor beforehand, and it fit OK, right? And how would you even know that the VS muffler didn't fit if you didn't try to install it?

I believe that Vintage Speed makes a quality product and they should stand behind it. If they try to give you any crap about a refund or replacement, ask to speak to a manager, or even to the owner if you have to.
_________________
'63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone)

[56reddy]

I have a VS Abarth 36hp exhaust. When I first installed it I had the same issues with leaks. I then loosened all the flanges so I could easily adjust each section. After everything was aligned, I tightened the nuts starting at the exhaust flanges at the heads making sure to keep anything from moving. This fixed all my problems and I have no exhaust leaks.
_________________
New Vintage Specialist.
1974 ghia convertible
1981 Vanagon Westfalia
Making VW’s Fun Again.(MVFA)

[61SNRF]

Wurth is just a German version of high temp RTV...
http://www.wurth.co.uk/automotive-small-components...paste-140g

No doubt more expensive and harder to get, and probably no better than Permatex Ultra Copper, which is the product I've had excellent results using.

Given the many variables of an early air cooled engine assembly, the use of this would be justifiable.
_________________
-Bruce

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[krs.br79]

[Brian Anthony]

You stated: "I can't say I used a 1/4" bead of RTV, but I did let it cure before tightening down." I have never let it cure before tightening down. I've always tightened the joints as quick as possible after spreading the RTV. I've got a Vintage Speed exhaust with their J-tubes mounted in heater boxes. I smeared the RTV in all joints and gradually tightened the joints and banged things around with a rubber mallet to evenly load the joints and then tightened them some more. I probably made 5 rounds of increasing the torque until it was torqued to spec. In my case, it was a few weeks before I started the engine so the RTV had plenty of time to cure out. The thicker the RTV, the longer it takes to cure. I've had no problems with leaks.
_________________
1965 Double Cab
1967 Bug, Sedan
1967 Bug, Convertible

I’m not old, but I once knew a man who was alive during the Civil War, and he once knew Revolutionary War veterans.

[krs.br79]

[Brian]

[Chris659]

Same thing happened with my Vs exhaust

I tried ordering another set of gaskets thinking it was me to then find out that their gasket kit doesn't include all of the gaskets for the exhaust
_________________
61 ragtop, 12 turbo beetle

[krs.br79]

So, I made another attempt at this today. I ordered a sheet of compression graphite gasket material, and cut out four proper sized gaskets. This was tedious work, but it fixed 3 out of the 4 flanges. After messing with various configurations of tightening sequences, the last flange would not seal up. Upon closer inspection, the flange does not mate up flat, but has a small < 1/32 gap on one side.

So, I put a really thick bead of high temp RTV on this last gasket, tightened it up, and will let it sit overnight before testing.

As for VS direct, they have not responded to my last email when I told them I prefer not to use exhaust paste, and that for the price point I would like an exhaust that bolts up without wasting all this time and effort to get it together.

The Vendor has said I need to use high temp RTV, since that's what he uses and has left it at that.

This has been a huge pain in my ass. I only can hope the front end goes together easier than this has.

[61SNRF]

I'm sure the Vendor has done all they can within reason in order to make their production assembly jigs as best as practical, but even in the best case, I'm sure they will readily admit it's still "one size fits most".

And again as I mentioned before, this factor is multiplied and expounded when you consider the many variables that go into making a horizontally opposed engine, especially an air cooled one. Every crankcase, every set of barrels, and every set of heads are different within a plus/minus tolerance.
When all the tolerances are at one end or the other and produce a negative result, that is known as "tolerance stack-up", or what they used to say was the cause of a "Lemon" car.

Think about it, they are a small, cottage style aftermarket parts business that has no official Factory authorization, therefore anything they produce is a "clone" of a factory type part that has been reverse engineered by using a sample engine on a stand.

I can understand your frustration, but as I've tried to express from the beginning, the use of an "exhaust paste" or additional sealant should not be frowned upon as a viable solution in this issue. If you have a good solid bead in there and got a little squeeze out when you tightened them, you should have no more leakage.
When used as directed it does stand up as a long term solution.

Another good point of reference is, every modern IC engine on the road today uses a high percentage of RTV liquid gaskets for assembly.

I hoping you're pleased with the results, especially the exhaust "note" it makes when cruising down the highway
_________________
-Bruce

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[krs.br79]

[littleredwagen]