Replacing the Ignition Switch

[blissfulbeing]

Hey there chaps!

OK, here's the situation that I'm trying to resolve by replacing both the electircal and lock cylinder mechanism of the ignition switch:

'68 Westy starts and runs fine. At some random point while driving around the thing just shuts down. The gauges all go dead and the engine stops running. Now, if I'm stopped when this happens and I jiggle the key a bit, the red generator light will eventually snap on and the gas gauge will start reading again (but the bus needs to be restarted, of course). If I just so happen to be moving at a decent speed when the sucker knocks off, I can keep coasting under the momentum I have (with the clutch still engaged) and, if I'm lucky, when I jiggle the key all the elecrical do-hickeys kick back in and I can just keep on goin'. This was alarming at first, cute for a short while, and is now just plain dangerous. The funny thing is that it happens totally at random. I can drive for days without it happening and then WHAM it'll stop a dozen times in a half mile. Sometimes it happens when she's warmed up - sometimes when she first gets going.

Anyway, I've decided that replacing both the electrical and lock cylinder components of the little darlin' is the surest way to go.

Now, I got the electrical connections apart from the lock cylinder. No sweat. But, how in tarnation do I get that lock cylinder outta there?

peace

ps - anyone know a good place to get the lock cylinder? CIP1 and Wolfsburg are out of stock. The Depot doesn't even seem to carry it. Any thoughts?
_________________
Live Woodstock In Your Heart...

'68 Bay Window Camper

[ratwell]

[Bookwus]

Hiya Bliss,

There are a couple of of considerations when messing around with the ignition in an early baywindow.

Number One, the problem you have already identified, how to get that thing outta there. Do be aware of this (startling information coming up) there are not specific removal instructions for some lock housings. Despite what you may hear, the instructions simply do not exist. I had to remove an 887A from my 1970. I was told that not only were there no instructions for an 887A but that VW NEVER even made an 887A. Remarkable in that I've since pulled the housings out of five 1970 Type 2s and every one was an 887A. Moral to this story? Find good instructions (if you can - the specialpatrol website is a good one - Thanks Richard!) but be prepared to "wing it" if you have to.

Number Two, all of this may well be for naught. If your key is working in the cylinder housing - it turns and does its job and all - don't mess with the lock cylinder. Your problem is NOT there. The electrical switch is causing your problem - fix that. The lock cylinder is practically bulletproof. It can stand a good cleaning (soak it in brake cleaner and lube it with Tri-Flow) once in a great while, but that's about it.

Number Three, didn't believe number two? Gonna get a new lock cylinder anyway? Don't go the aftermarket route. The stuff available out there is of very low quality, especially when compared to the OEM lock cylinder. Instead go out to a good boneyard and find a lock cylinder made for a 68 (I think 69 and 70 will do the trick also). You'll be much happier in the long run.

Mike

1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck [/quote]

[steponmebbbboom]

I agree. I see no merit in replacing the lock cylinder, especially since you will be losing that pretty chrome button to an ugly black anodized aluminum thing poking out from your housing.

Yuck. That being said, I love that site and it is in my bookmarks. Good advice there

[Blaubus]

seems to me, the electrical part is so easy to change, why not see if that does the trick? the lock cylinder requires that you remove the pod from the car. last time i did that, i was cursin... at least a little bit. it also seems counterintuitive that the lock would cause this problem. if some think otherwise, perhaps the reasoning should be stated- i always seem to have something new to learn, and am not professing to know everything about ignition switches, although i have taken them apart in the past.

[ratwell]

The switch is your problem. It's a just a matter of what condition is your lock in.
_________________
'78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab Sweden
Read the Baywindow FAQ

[1979westie]

I had the exact same problem this spring. The bus would just quit and the gauge lights would go out, but by jiggling the key it woud come back on again. Replacing the ignition switch solved the problem. There was a crack in the plastic case of the switch that allowed the spring return inside to lose contact. Certainly no need to replace the lock itself, as everyone else here has said. Good luck!
Eric
_________________
Your car may do 0-60 in under 5 seconds, but can it sleep 4 and cook a meal?

1979 Deluxe Campmobile (quickly rusting away)
33K miles when bought, now at 61K
Proud Member #2 SBS (Stock Bus Society)

[blissfulbeing]

Alright then, I'll do it... I'm feeling pretty weary about only replacing the electical part, but if 5 of you are sayin' that the problem is likely to be solved without wrenching the whole lock mechanism outta there, I'll save myself the time and trouble and just replace the electrical.

Bookwus: I'm interested to know how it is that you were able to get the lock cylinder out of there anyway (even though I may not be pulling mine right now). Did you just poke, prod, twist and yank or is there a more tactful method?

thanks for the help ya'll.
_________________
Live Woodstock In Your Heart...

'68 Bay Window Camper

[germansupplyscott]

another problem i have seen several times is that the aftermarket electrical starter switches are a poor fit, and they fix the problem for a short time, then wear out quickly. the symptom of this is an electrical switch which will start the vehicle when you turn the middle of it with a screwdriver (i.e. it is removed from the column, but attached to the harness), but when it is attached to the column and is being turned by the ignition cylinder, it will not start the vehicle. this seems especially true with the 74-79 starter switches.

we recommend the VW dealer ignition starter switch, they cost about 3x the aftermarket, but the quality (and hassle-prevention) is worth it. i am not positive the early switch is available from VW, but the late one is.
_________________
SL

[asublime8ball]

I wish this had been here about 3 months ago..

I have been driving with a ghetto ignition now for close to a year.. well, since I bought my current beast. There was no ignition key, so I am using the infamous "dangle-screwdriver" type ignition. ABout 3 months ago, my steering column unceremoniously locked while I was at the first stop in myh morning route... solid, un-moveable.. I called a local locksmith, thinking - "Hey, he's a locksmith.." IN three hours, he tried to pick, drill, pound, and chisel the lock cylinder into submission... and failed. We finally had to peen off the cover plate to the lock mechanism and literally break it so my vehicle would steer again. If it is possible to find an original lock cylinder if/when you replace one, I whole heartedly suggest trying to find an original.. I am convinced that they are beyond bullet proof and extend into the realm of explosive resistant.

[ronan.b]

aploligies for thread hyjacking but i have a little question!!!

do you need to remove the ignition barrell etc to free the steering lock??

any ideas would be appreciated
_________________
my bus came with the optional ferrous oxide performance pack (gets lighter as more rots away, and therefore faster)......

78 nine seater

[Bookwus]

Hiya Ronan,

By "ignition barrel" I'm assuming that you are referring to the ignition housing which contains the ignition keylock cylider, the steering wheel lock, and the electrical ignition switch.

Because the housing is built around the steering lock and the steering lock is an integral part of the ignition housing, the ignition housing DOES HAVE TO BE REMOVED in order to pull the steering wheel lock free from the steering column.

Mike

1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

[ronan.b]

thanks for the reply mike. my latest purchase came without a key!!!! how handy is that, so it looks like i'll need to do all the work from myspecialpatrolgroup.co.uk.

oh well
_________________
my bus came with the optional ferrous oxide performance pack (gets lighter as more rots away, and therefore faster)......

78 nine seater

[rccbusfreak]

I have the dash and steering wheel, turn signal housing plus the ignition electrical half and ignition lock apart. My ignition switch is currently on the dash and my wiring is a mess. Some previous owner took a chisel to the stock lock in the console and the underneath of the console on the electrical end. I pulled the whole console off the steering wheel shaft casing. Now on my parts bus, this is all good. I pulled it all off the same way. This one had lock steering, and at one point I was able to stick a screwdriver down in the tube to release the locking pin. I do not have a key for this ignition lock. No problem for a locksmith. Just take the console, ign. lock assy. to them. Unless there is some special tool, the original lock tumbler is not coming out of that console.(71 westfalia) or it will look like mine does. ps. I am going to put the whole assembly on my bus. pss. This whole mess was hard to explain. I hope it helps.
_________________
71 Westfalia
68 Transporter
71 Transporter parts bus (the bus that keeps on giving)
LudwigUSA

[Blaubus]

i have also had locksmiths give up after 3 hours... i have seen descriptions on type2.com for removing the lock, but i say it cant be done on a 71 without doing something destructive... i concluded this after i broke one out improperly, then i analyzed the f**k ou tof it. (yes, i had the pin tool) there is a very small ball track that pulls the cylinder in as you turn the key, but only if you remove the key beforehand, which locks the column. once the cylinder is pulled in, you can turn the key on/off and it will stay in. this ball track is what had to be busted to pull out the lock. on later busses it is done differently.

i say: f**k ALL that!!! i keep a spare ignition pod w/key.

[Bookwus]

Hiya All,

After reading Dan's and RC's posts I am reminded on how very valuable a dental pick is for work on (and removing) ignition lock cylinders. I wouldn't be without one in this type of work. It was one of the "keys" (sorry) to removing the lock cylinder in my 70 Bus.

Mike

1970 Bus - The Ruptured Duck

[ugmold]

I am back to work on my ignition switch, my previously soldering job finally let loose so I guess it is time to put in the new replacement switch. However I am at the same point I was before, I cannot get the switch out, there is just no room.

I didn't find much info in this thread, and I have looked at http://www.specialpatrolgroup.co.uk/spooky/barrel/barrel.html

I feel like cutting up the housing just to get it done, I don't really see how taking off the steering wheel will help, but I'll do it if need be.

Any advice is appreciated.

-ugmold

[ugmold]

Progress!

I got the old switch out with a pair of channel locks, and the new one went in pretty easy. It looks like there is a small hole on one of the tabs which I assume lines up with the grub screw, which is now tightened (the screw is not the original grub screw, the PO must have lost it)

So now I guess I just need to swap out the wiring. I may be back.

-ugmold

[ugmold]

I wired the new switch like the old switch, except for the grey wire, "P" which wasn't hitched up on the old switch. so it is taped off.

What I am getting when I reconnect to the battery is the radio comes on, I can turn the switch with a screwdriver and all lights come on as they should but the starter won't go?

Advice?

-ugmold

[Randy in Maine]

Humor me and confirm that the starter really does turn over when you test it this way....