Long Term Plan

[AlexQS]

Hi. I have been reading the forums for a while. It seems I could read forever. Many of my questions have already been answered. I have read lots of tech articles at places like aircooled.net, mostly all of Gene Bergs website. DTM, Steelbuggin, many others. Lots of great info.

So I'd like to build a bug, a really nice one. Something between a stock sleeper, and a German Looker. Something powerful but streetable, and I know it won't be cheap.

Not tons of money to start with. I like the older style with Rossi Headlights, but handeling is very important. I figure I want the IRS read and Balljoint Front. That means later than 1969 -at least the pan. Should I steer clear of the Super Beatle? Or do I want the Super Beatle if handeling is important to me? I plan to upgrade the suspension, narrow beam, drop spindles w/disk brake etc. Should I start with a 1969 - 72 Standard Beatle, or Super Beatle?

The long term plan, is that I get something that is a good runner to start with (1600 DP), hopefully good floor pans and decent interior. I figure I have enough skill to rebuild and bleed stock brakes, carb, set valves, install new points cap rotor wires etc.

Then as I save (and when I graduate from apprentice to journeyman) they I would start to build an engine. I was thinking something like 2006cc with good heads and dual carbs. Then upgrade the brakes and suspension and buy a really good tranny, and install the new engine.

Next find the early body I want, and put it on my late model pan which has the good suspension brakes and drivetrain at this point. Paint it, do interior, and detailing

I really like CB Performance Fuel Injected Turbo. Fits nice under the deck lid. I think that was like $5 - $7K alone! Woah.

I like the look of Noof's car. (What year is that,... maybe I like late models after all?)

I think I had a question in here somewhere. Is Gene Bergs engine kit really as cool and high quality as they claim? Seems I could buy a long block for less money. I've done lots of stuff, have lots of tools, but never built an engine. Are Bergs instructions and support necessary for someone doing this the first time? I don't want to ask too many questions at once... just one more. Is it a bad idea to build an engine that I would expect to perform well normally aspirated, and then would be too much to ask that same engine to be turbo'd at a later date?

okay, well thanks.

Alex (Portland OR)

[vwracerdave]

Just my thoughts, I love a good plan...............................

Your long range plan sounds good. I've always liked an early body on a late pan. I have a '56 rag on a '69 pan sitting in the back of my garage waiting for my next project. Stick with the '69-'77 standard pan and forget about a super Beetle. Early bodies won't fit on a Super pan.

2007cc 90.5X78 is an awesome engine combo. Very drivable high performance street and some respectable drag racing too. If you want a turbo engine, then build one from the start. Don't build a N/A engine thinking that later you want to convert to a turbo. Always start where you want to end.

Gene Berg was a major pioneer of the VW high performance back in the 60's-90's All his stuff is top quality and works well. Every part he sells come with complete instructions on how to use and install the part. Very few other companies do this. Most just sell you a part, and then your own your own what to do with it.

Good luck on your project. 30 years later, I'm still playing with mine.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[AlexQS]

Thanks for your ideas man! I can get so far ahead of myself with all these dreamy plans of mine; but nice to know that someone else agrees that it is a good long term goal.


My first step question was probably the most important one. Now I know what I am looking for "a 1969 - 1977 Standard Beetle", and my project can grow from there.


Every now and then you see one that runs, real cheap. Usually sold in a day or two. Next time I'll be ready!!




Cheers

[vwdmc16]

[AlexQS]

[Ann Mezger]

I think you're on the right track by doing the research & planning ahead. First thing would be to find a solid car that's worth saving & investing in. As far as the decision to choose a standard beetle or a super, it's really up to you. It seems most people prefer the standard (IMO they look nicer) and you can make them handle very well with modifications. The super beetle will give you a softer ride - more like a pillow. (Great for older people with older bones) Parts are available for both and in all reality, either would be fine. I prefer the older (pre-'67) body style, but that's personal preference.

With regard to your questions on going turbo at a later date, I always suggest to anyone who thinks they may consider it in the future to build the engine now as if it was going to be turbo charged right away. There are several considerations to make when adding a turbo & it really isn't worth changing things later (it will cost more in the long run to do it twice) if you are going to make the upgrade. The performance will not suffer enough to make a difference if you build it for the turbo now, but leave it normally aspirated for the time being. If you keep the compression lower, install the right cam, have the cylinder heads done with inconel & stainless valves, Manton HD pushrods, etc. then you will be able to install the turbo system with minor hassle at a future date. On the other hand, if you just opt to build (or buy) a normally aspirated engine that was not built to handle the added HP, you may find that you'll have to make some serious changes down the road. Unfortunately, it could mean costly repairs because the parts chosen for the build weren't able to handle the boost. As for quality - rule #1 is you get what you pay for. There is A LOT of cheap junk out there. Be careful. If you're not sure about a part or company - ASK. This site is great because it has the buyer & seller feedback & everything is VW specific, so you'll be able to narrow your search quick.

The technical information you've mentioned has a lot of good information for a starting point, but you'll need to keep in mind that much of what you'll read is 20+ years old. (Like the Gene Berg Technical writings) There have been many advancements in the industry & much of what was written is very outdated & some has even been proven wrong. (for instance - the Berg theory on full circle counter weighted cranks) Read it with a grain of salt & look at what is going on today. If you can, find a local shop & spend some time with the engine builder. A reputable person won't mind teaching you some important lessons or letting you watch before you build your own. I think you've got a good plan & if you take your time, you'll have a very nice car when it's all done. Good luck!

[jamestwo]

air-cooled VWs have four cylinders
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hEY, lOOK, i'M WRONG HALF THE TIME, AND THE OTHER HALF i'M NOT SURE WHAT THE HECK i'M TALKING ABOUT. MY POST ARE FOR MY OWN ENTERTAINMENT VALUE ONLY.