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EZ Gruv
King of Plaid
Joined: December 10, 2002
Posts: 8575
Location: Las Vegas
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 Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:16 pm Post subject: Accelerator Cable Issues |
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Hello all. I'm currently trying to install a new accelerator cable in my 74 Super. (Keifernet has been helping me through PMs, but I thought I would open this up to all)
Back story: I removed the old cable because it seemed to be binding somewhere and no allowing the lever on the carb to return to the cam.
When I opened the new cable, I checked the length side-by-side with the old one; they were equal length.
When I fished in the new cable (with plenty of grease) I had to remove the end of the flexible guide tube from the rear end to get the cable through, then put it back on the metal tube.
Now it seems the cable isnt long enough.
I removed the flexible tube completely and cleaned it out as best I could; no change.
I stuck my camera up there and there is a hose clamp on the metal tube?
After searching, it seems it is there to keep the metal tube from coming out? But the thread I found shows the clamp by the fan shroud, not on the back side by the transmission.
Any words of wisdom for this Bus driving guy?
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Eric
1977 Deluxe Westfalia - 2.0L FI Type IV, Completely Original
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mnussbau
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Joined: August 26, 2006
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Location: Central Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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The clamp is there only to hold the guide tube in place. It doesn't matter if it's behind the shroud or the tin, and in fact I don't believe any clamp is there from the factory. It just makes it easier when reinstalling the engine, so the guide tube doesn't fall out and you can easily feed the cable through. The sleeve surrounding the cable should just push onto the tube after you feed the cable through.
As to why the new cable is "too short"...that's a good question. Maybe the sleeve is bent, making the cable appear short? Is the hook end of the cable installed correctly at the pedal? Is the gas pedal dropped all the way forward, like the return spring is missing?
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Mike
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EZ Gruv
King of Plaid
Joined: December 10, 2002
Posts: 8575
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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So the clamp is ok, that's good news. I was thinking maybe the clamp was in the way of the flexible tube connecting all the way.
I tried connecting the cable at the pedal both ways; outside and inside of the roller lever. No noticable change at the carb when I pull the cable rearward.
Not sure what you mean by "maybe the sleeve is bent".
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Eric
1977 Deluxe Westfalia - 2.0L FI Type IV, Completely Original
Photographer for HotVWs, VolksWorld, AirMighty, VW Camper & Commercial, Hayburner, and more.
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mnussbau
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Location: Central Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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If the sleeve has a big U in it the cable won't be long enough to reach the carb. It's probably not the problem but just thinking of every possibility.
The correct way to connect the cable is to have it run inside the pedal, so the hook's end is on the left side of the pedal after it's in place.
Is the gas pedal pushed down at all?
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Mike
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EZ Gruv
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Joined: December 10, 2002
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Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| mnussbau wrote: |
If the sleeve has a big U in it the cable won't be long enough to reach the carb. It's probably not the problem but just thinking of every possibility.
The correct way to connect the cable is to have it run inside the pedal, so the hook's end is on the left side of the pedal after it's in place.
Is the gas pedal pushed down at all? |
The flexible sleeve definitely isnt straight; it kind of somes out of the pan, goes up over the transmission to the metal sleeve in the tin.
The pedal isnt pushed down at all when I try to connect the carb end. If the pedal is pushed pown it is even shorter at the carb.
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Eric
1977 Deluxe Westfalia - 2.0L FI Type IV, Completely Original
Photographer for HotVWs, VolksWorld, AirMighty, VW Camper & Commercial, Hayburner, and more.
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keifernet
Samba Search & Rescue
Joined: May 11, 2002
Posts: 19395
Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| mnussbau wrote: |
The clamp is there only to hold the guide tube in place. It doesn't matter if it's behind the shroud or the tin, and in fact I don't believe any clamp is there from the factory. It just makes it easier when reinstalling the engine, so the guide tube doesn't fall out and you can easily feed the cable through. The sleeve surrounding the cable should just push onto the tube after you feed the cable through.
As to why the new cable is "too short"...that's a good question. Maybe the sleeve is bent, making the cable appear short? Is the hook end of the cable installed correctly at the pedal? Is the gas pedal dropped all the way forward, like the return spring is missing? |
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=346788&highlight=clamp
I think it does matter where the clamp is. I would remove it ( the hose clamp) from where it is( and put it behind the fan housing) at as it is not letting the long flex guide tube shove all the way on to the solid metal tube. The resulting slight bend could be changing the "length" of the cable if you follow me. I have seen it happen on the other end where the flexible tube is not mated too/shoved on the tube coming out of the chassis before.
Also if you took a cable out that was too short and put one in the same length what was that supposed to change?   |
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mnussbau
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Location: Central Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Accelerator Cable Issues |
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| EZ Gruv wrote: |
| I removed the old cable because it seemed to be binding somewhere and no allowing the lever on the carb to return to the cam. |
Is it possible the old cable was actually too short, and the identical new cable is also too short? CIP1 lists 2 cables for '74 (the latter is for '75 model year):
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-111-721-555-J
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-133-721-555-B
The newer style is 34mm (1.3") shorter. And of course other year cables have different lengths...the cable for '66-'71 is 17mm (.67") shorter than the '74.
What is the production date on your Bug?
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Mike
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EZ Gruv
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Joined: December 10, 2002
Posts: 8575
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| keifernet wrote: |
Also if you took a cable out that was too short and put one in the same length what was that supposed to change? |
Well, the old cable fit through fine, before I pulled it out of the bug.
Here is video proof! You can see it sticking through the barrel clamp.
Link
It has to have something to do with the flex tube. (in my head anyway)
Oh, and it is defintely well connected at the chasis side.
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Eric
1977 Deluxe Westfalia - 2.0L FI Type IV, Completely Original
Photographer for HotVWs, VolksWorld, AirMighty, VW Camper & Commercial, Hayburner, and more.
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EZ Gruv
King of Plaid
Joined: December 10, 2002
Posts: 8575
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Accelerator Cable Issues |
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| mnussbau wrote: |
What is the production date on your Bug? |
Pretty sure it is 2/74.
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Eric
1977 Deluxe Westfalia - 2.0L FI Type IV, Completely Original
Photographer for HotVWs, VolksWorld, AirMighty, VW Camper & Commercial, Hayburner, and more.
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keifernet
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Joined: May 11, 2002
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Location: Samba Center for Behavioral Science
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| EZ Gruv wrote: |
| keifernet wrote: |
Also if you took a cable out that was too short and put one in the same length what was that supposed to change? |
Well, the old cable fit through fine, before I pulled it out of the bug.
Here is video proof! You can see it sticking through the barrel clamp.
Link
It has to have something to do with the flex tube. (in my head anyway) |
Yeah I was just giving you shiate 
We did talk about that already... and I already told Erik about the possibility of a cable change by chassis number around 74 year model. There were also different length flex guide tubes over the years. No telling what you have going on but IMHO that hose clamp in the place it is in could be making your cable off by 1/4-1/2 "
I also warned about cables being packaged that are NOT the correct length stated/marked what have you as I have run across that many times.
That's the next thing I would eliminate. |
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EZ Gruv
King of Plaid
Joined: December 10, 2002
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Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| keifernet wrote: |
but IMHO that hose clamp in the place it is in could be making your cable off by 1/4-1/2 "
That's the next thing I would eliminate. |
Right, just need to figure out how the hell to do that! That's going to be a pain for sure trying to get a clamp off up there blindly.
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Eric
1977 Deluxe Westfalia - 2.0L FI Type IV, Completely Original
Photographer for HotVWs, VolksWorld, AirMighty, VW Camper & Commercial, Hayburner, and more.
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mnussbau
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Keith, I see what you mean about the clamp. But doesn't the sleeve simply slide over the cable? Why would it prevent the cable from reaching the back?
EZ Gruv, one time I had the same problem, and to fix it I just loosened the barrel clamp on the carb, let the cable go back maybe 1/8", and retightened. For some reason the barrel clamp was binding and causing a problem.
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Mike
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keifernet
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| EZ Gruv wrote: |
| keifernet wrote: |
but IMHO that hose clamp in the place it is in could be making your cable off by 1/4-1/2 "
That's the next thing I would eliminate. |
Right, just need to figure out how the hell to do that! That's going to be a pain for sure trying to get a clamp off up there blindly. |
I can't really tell from that pic if that a small fuel hose style clamp or not. If it is then I would use a small 1/4 socket/nut driver that fits it instead of a flat blade screwdriver.
Also you might be able to use a long prybar from the drivers side inside the engine compt and bend/flex the rear tin back into the engine compt ( a helper doing this while you....) and then attack it from the pass side.
Instead of trying it from up underneath which would be a big challenge. Someone obviously put that clamp in that spot BEFORE the engine was last installed.
Or even grab the metal tube from the fan housing out side ( maybe get the carb out off out of the way) and you might can pull the tube out with pliers and the clamp would just slide/fall off the back end of the tube and come off that way.
Last edited by keifernet on Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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EZ Gruv
King of Plaid
Joined: December 10, 2002
Posts: 8575
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| mnussbau wrote: |
EZ Gruv, one time I had the same problem, and to fix it I just loosened the barrel clamp on the carb, let the cable go back maybe 1/8", and retightened. For some reason the barrel clamp was binding and causing a problem. |
But right now, the cable cannot reach the barrel clamp at all.
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Eric
1977 Deluxe Westfalia - 2.0L FI Type IV, Completely Original
Photographer for HotVWs, VolksWorld, AirMighty, VW Camper & Commercial, Hayburner, and more.
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keifernet
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| mnussbau wrote: |
Keith, I see what you mean about the clamp. But doesn't the sleeve simply slide over the cable? Why would it prevent the cable from reaching the back?
EZ Gruv, one time I had the same problem, and to fix it I just loosened the barrel clamp on the carb, let the cable go back maybe 1/8", and retightened. For some reason the barrel clamp was binding and causing a problem. |
The flexible guide tube slides up onto about 1- 1 1/2 inches of the solid metal tube... right there behind the tin. If the clamp is in the way on that side... the tube cannot slide up as far. Effectively putting more "bend" in the flex tube... taking away over all length of cable? I can see what I am saying but it may be a crazy theory. I can picture it in my mind though... like having "too much" bend in the clutch bowden tube. |
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EZ Gruv
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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That is what my mind sees as well!
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Eric
1977 Deluxe Westfalia - 2.0L FI Type IV, Completely Original
Photographer for HotVWs, VolksWorld, AirMighty, VW Camper & Commercial, Hayburner, and more.
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keifernet
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EZ Gruv
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe, if it cures the original problem anyway!
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Eric
1977 Deluxe Westfalia - 2.0L FI Type IV, Completely Original
Photographer for HotVWs, VolksWorld, AirMighty, VW Camper & Commercial, Hayburner, and more.
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keifernet
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I thought you said you had one of those "universal" cable kits laying around? |
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mnussbau
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Location: Central Maryland
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| keifernet wrote: |
| ...Effectively putting more "bend" in the flex tube... taking away over all length of cable? I can see what I am saying but it may be a crazy theory. I can picture it in my mind though... like having "too much" bend in the clutch bowden tube. |
Well, I see what you're saying too, and it must be accurate...there's not much else in the way of explanation...I just had my engine out, and just put a zip tie on the cable guide, on the tin side, not the shroud. Had no problem with the accel cable, but the zip tie was only about 1/8" wide.
| EZ Gruv wrote: |
| But right now, the cable cannot reach the barrel clamp at all. |
So again a puzzle: how did it reach before, when you didn't touch the hose clamp? Actually, you DID pull the sleeve back, so try playing with it or removing the clamp like Keith says.
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