Glow Plug Replacement

[coolwind57]

I'm picking up four new glow plugs tomorrow morning. I just eyeballed the location of the glow plugs on my NA 1.6 Diesel. PLEASE tell me I can get to that first glow plug without moving or removing the injection pump!! The others look fairly easy to get to.
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1983 Vanagon Diesel L
NA 1.6, 5-speed Manual
Burning Waste Vegetable Oil, baby!!

[foodeater]

You can on a rabbit, but I've always found that you have to remove the metal fuel lines. Should be the same on a vanagon, since its the same motor. Its not really too bad of a job. I recommend replacing the glow plug relay at the same time, so you dont have to replace the plugs again for a good long while.
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89 Bluestar-2.5 Subaru Powered-RIP
'84 Westy Tiico-daily driver-sold
'82 Caddy diesel-sold
'87 Vanagon Syncro-RIP
'81 diesel rabbit-sold
'82 Vanagon auto-RIP

[coolwind57]

I was wondering about the relay, but thought since it is simply a "relay", I would only have to replace it if it tested bad.

Another thing...I ordered these through my local parts store. I never thought to ask if they were slow or fast plugs. I chose Champion brand because I ran across some negative info on the Autolites. Should one assume that glow plugs from the local parts store are fast burning?
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1983 Vanagon Diesel L
NA 1.6, 5-speed Manual
Burning Waste Vegetable Oil, baby!!

[coolwind57]

I just put the new glow plugs in. I purchased Champion (Federal Mogul) 14625 glow plugs. I noticed that two of my old plugs were a slightly different design as I compared them. I was hoping that these old plugs were the cause of my 42-second warm ups.

I was wrong. The new ones are not better. I still have 42 or so seconds before my glow plug LED light goes off.

You guys suppose that my GP relay is in need of replacement?
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1983 Vanagon Diesel L
NA 1.6, 5-speed Manual
Burning Waste Vegetable Oil, baby!!

[foodeater]

I've always used Bosch glow plugs. Rarely more that 10 seconds, 15 at the most before the light goes out. At 40 seconds you will burn the glow plugs up pretty quick. The relay is only like $10 to $15, I always replaced when I did the plugs just to be safe.
_________________
89 Bluestar-2.5 Subaru Powered-RIP
'84 Westy Tiico-daily driver-sold
'82 Caddy diesel-sold
'87 Vanagon Syncro-RIP
'81 diesel rabbit-sold
'82 Vanagon auto-RIP

[coolwind57]

Man, I haven't seen relays for that cheap. They seem to go from $40-$70. I've checked with two different parts stores here while on-line. I just bought one from E-bay for $19.95 + shipping. I thought I got a fairly decent deal.
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1983 Vanagon Diesel L
NA 1.6, 5-speed Manual
Burning Waste Vegetable Oil, baby!!

[foodeater]

I havent done A glow plug replacement in about four or five years, so I could be wrong about the price.
_________________
89 Bluestar-2.5 Subaru Powered-RIP
'84 Westy Tiico-daily driver-sold
'82 Caddy diesel-sold
'87 Vanagon Syncro-RIP
'81 diesel rabbit-sold
'82 Vanagon auto-RIP

[foodeater]

Try here.
http://www.rapidparts.com

Put in your model, year..etc. then put relay into the keyword search. They are local to me when I'm in N.Y. They have relays for around $20. which seems in line with what I remember accounting for inflation. Good guys too.
_________________
89 Bluestar-2.5 Subaru Powered-RIP
'84 Westy Tiico-daily driver-sold
'82 Caddy diesel-sold
'87 Vanagon Syncro-RIP
'81 diesel rabbit-sold
'82 Vanagon auto-RIP

[reiney]

The amount of time the glow plugs stay on is determined by the relay, which receives a signal from a temp sensor on the head; doesn't have anything to do with wheter or not the plugs are good. There is also another signal from the starter going to the relay which will cause the glow plug cycle to terminate early if you start the van before the light goes out.

A good plug will draw at least 10 amps and if you have access to a clamp-on DC ammeter, you can do a quick check without having to remove anything by measuring the current draw on the large red wire coming from the glow plug fuse. Once the plugs are out, you can use a battery charger to check them individually.

A quick check with a voltmeter will tell you if the main relay contacts are good. Might want to make sure the temp sensor is working and it's connections are good before spending the $$ on a new relay.

[coolwind57]

Good stuff here, fellas. Thanks for your help.
_________________
1983 Vanagon Diesel L
NA 1.6, 5-speed Manual
Burning Waste Vegetable Oil, baby!!

[MarkWard]

And the glow plug fuse. It is under a small black cover with two heavy leads. The fuse is a flat peice of tin. It can burn out and you can't see it. Pick at it with a small screw driver. I use as a replacement the fuse for a 5 cylinder diesel audi. I would not attempt to change the glow plugs with the fuel lines in place and you might as well change the injector vent hoses at the same time. Bosch used to make a quick glow kit. Included the new quick relay and 4 glow plugs.

[rotaecho]

Well, I *think* I have a bad glow-plug issue. My van is unable to start even when 50 sunny Cali winter day

It showed signs of a failing alternator not charging the battery which has been replaced. The battery voltage looks fine. The starter sounds strong in its trying to crank the engine over. The glow lights go on and then off within 30-40secs. I see fuel hitting the clear fuel-line, and I also smell fuel/see white smoke coming out of the exhaust at times.

The van was running fine two months back and then I did some work while it sat. This New Years I went to a camp site and had to get a jump that morning which I thought odd, because the battery was fine voltage, but it got us started and I shrugged it off.

Later on the way back from the camp site it just kept trying to crank over, but nothing happened even after 30-40secs of good solid cranking.

I noticed my glow-plug relay, looks a bit hack-jobbed, even though properly wired. The last known receipt from previous owner states the glow-plugs were replaced in 2008.

I connected a positive lead to the fuse-red-wire and touched the negative post to the fourth glow plug and saw 40a roughly. I'm not *exactly* sure if I put it on the right spot, but here is a photo of the 4th plug and the red-wire I mention.

Also, reading before, the metal pipes were mentioned required to get access to the glow-plugs for removal. Is there any further instructions on how to access the glow-plugs or another topic on it? I have been running into not the best of luck to figure this procedure out and what it entails.

Thanks for any input!
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-Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com

[Brickwerks]

You can do them with ratchet spanners but if we are doing them at work we don't mess about,injector lines off and a couple of injectors out, dead easy then, much quicker than messing about down the back of the pump.
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[rotaecho]

So, removing the injector lines / injectors should give me enough clearance?

Is there any benefit for removing the whole injector pump via the three bolts going around it and the two allen bolts towards the back?
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-Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com

[Brickwerks]

You don't need to take the pump off.
17mm spanner for the injector lines.
27mm KCA type injector socket.
8mm ratchet spanner.
12mm ratchet spanner.

Remember you'll need some new flame traps/injector sealing washers as they are single use and need to be replaced if you remove an injector.
Youll get the 2 not covered by the pump with normal socketry.
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[rotaecho]

I have most of that except the 27mm which I ordered today.

Do you have an idea where I could obtain the flame traps/injector seal washers?

Any other advice on removing the injector plugs/bars for access to the glow-plugs?

[kaalualu]

check vincewaldon.com pimp your glow plugs.

[?Waldo?]

I would not recommend removing the injectors in order to access the glow plugs. The injectors aren't in the way of the glow plugs, you would need to replace the injector heat shields (single-use) and you run the risk of cracking the injector boss if you do not do it correctly which would then require you to replace the cylinder head... If you feel you must remove injectors, then be sure to orient the breaker bar so that you are pushing toward the head not pulling away as the puts less stress on the injector boss. Also, do a a 1/4 turn out, 1/8 turn in, 1/4 turn out, 1/8 turn in, etc... If the injectors have not been removed in a long time then the crud on the threads can ball up and also pop the injector boss.

[rotaecho]

Andrew,

Thanks for the update, I'm just trying to figure it all out and for whatever reason the Injector lines aren't too covered in the Bentley.

The injector lines you speak of are the metal tubes from the injector correct? To remove those, do I muse unbolt the end of the metal lines to move it out of the way?

Thanks again Andrew for the help!

[rotaecho]

Okay, I have the injector lines removed and I can see the glow-plugs better.

I've been trying to remove the 8mm nuts off of the glow-plugs, but the angle hasn't been too successful using a standard 8mm wrench and smaller 8mm socket.

Any suggestions or tool you think I should look into or is it an act of patience and little turns

Thanks!
_________________
-Will
1982 Westfalia mTDI (50deg) aka Betsy Bertha
http://www.tdivanagons.com