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deluxe hunter
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Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 42
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 Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject: anyone running a FK-10 on the street? |
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thinking about using this in a 2276, 42x37 ported heads, twin del 48s.
street bug w stock gear ratios.
whats your thoughts? any experience with this lumpstick? |
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stealth67vw
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Joined: January 22, 2004
Posts: 1872
Location: Grass Pants, Orygun
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Bones 53
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 661
Location: Reno NV
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I have a K10 in a 2007 9.6:1 at 4800 feet 40 x 37.5 1.4's and it's great!!. I do have close gears though 3.88RP .378, 2.36, 1.59, 1.21 and .82. Pulls well from 2500 to 7500. I can drive around in 4th at 25 mph and step on it with a nice smooth acceleration. Also running tires that are 23.7 inches tall. |
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Alan_U
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Joined: July 10, 2004
Posts: 1762
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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A K8 would be more suitable.
I guess it really comes down to what you want. The K8 will have more grunt overall especially in the taller 3rd and 4th gears.
For a longterm longevity motor I'd go with a k8 vs a fk40 series cam. Milder on the valvetrain (lifter bores) and wont create as much cylinder pressure as a fk40 series but for a street car with minimal track time that would be a great all round cam for longevity.
Gearing is always a variable. Your engine with with a k8 would more than likely recover faster than a k10 when shifting a stock gear box. Some may say a k10 would make more HP (peak) but for a street car it might not make a huge difference. Driveability might be similar with a both cams on the street.
If your alot more keen on preventative maintenance the fk40 series will give you better bottom end. I think for a long term engine silicon bronze sleeves in the lifter bores will take more abuse from the side load the rampy cam will give the lifter body. Less spring pressure will ease the load.
Oh oh simple question gives you more questions... sorry 
You want alot of track time?? Street only???
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Ken Taber
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Joined: October 17, 2006
Posts: 123
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: FK-10 vs K-8 |
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| We have done extensive dyno testing of both the k-8 and fk-10 and found the fk-10 to be far superior to the k-8 on the street. |
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Alan_U
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Joined: July 10, 2004
Posts: 1762
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:59 am Post subject: Re: FK-10 vs K-8 |
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| Ken Taber wrote: |
| We have done extensive dyno testing of both the k-8 and fk-10 and found the fk-10 to be far superior to the k-8 on the street. |
On a dyno only?? what heads??? valve combo??? what gearing??? weight of car??? what compression??? what octane gas??? what carbs??? what venturi??? wieght of car??? what engine displacement???
Just a few questions 
Peak HP numbers are a good thing but a flat torque band it desireable. Stock geared car would more than likely recover faster with a smaller duration cam. 266degrees isn't a massive cam for a 2276 so both cams would work well on the street.
You can have two sets of ported heads with 42x37 valves. One head might be pig ported with larger CFM numbers while the other one has smaller ports with faster port velocity (feet per second) but less CFM numbers. The smaller ported head would be a better street head and produce less Peak HP numbers but more useable power at lower rpms.
A rampy cam like the fk40 series would give you better bottom end and still retain peak HP numbers (if heads will allow you) So when a street car gets loaded down with a tall gear the rampy cam will recover alot faster than a milder K8 cam in the engine combo described. Negative thing with rampy cams is that its harder on lifter bores.
I've swapped cams on same combos and there is a noticeable feel. Seat of your pants testing and timeslips do not always match. I would imagine a k8 would not wake up a 2276 faster than an fk45.
I run an fk47 on the street with udo tool steel lifters. Every stroker needs getting use to. Big cam to be honest but its more responsive than my smaller CB2289 cam I've used for years. I do have a shorter gearbox this year but the engine rips real hard at 3000rpms. I never EVER would have expected that kind of response with a 276 degree cam. IMO you can go a step higher in duration with an fk40 series cam. So if your heart is set on a k8 you can get virtually get the same if not more grunt with an fk46 cam and more headroom in making HP at the top due to more duration. IF I said IF your heads allow the cam to breath.
Never an easy decision. Its gotta be based on alot of variables. Its all in the combo.
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RIS
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Joined: December 18, 2003
Posts: 3044
Location: Youngstown, Ohio
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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2054cc, FK-10, 9.9:1, 42x37 heads, IDA's, 1 5/8 ex.
4.37 R&P and stock '63 Ratios.
1-3 were fine, 4th around town wasn't great - but it was driveable.
For a dedicated daily driver I'd look at something with less duaration. But I've never gone wrong with the FK8...
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deluxe hunter
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Joined: May 17, 2007
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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thanks for the replies.....
Ken, can you provide more info on the testing that you have done. i.e. engine specs etc...
Many people talk about the faster ramps (and better bottom end grunt) of the FK-40 series cams and how they accelerate valve train wear......does anyone have experience on the longevity of lifter bores etc... for a street car running say CB twin spring heads and the occaisional 6000+RPM burst.
I hear great things about the W-125, K-8 (and 86b) cams for street motors, but hardly anything about the K-10 and with only a few degrees more duration @ 0.05" ....seems strange |
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Alan_U
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Joined: July 10, 2004
Posts: 1762
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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K8 has 258 @ .050
K10 has 266 degrees @ .050.
They are not "only a few degrees difference."
If you want pep just throw in an fk45 (263 degrees @ .050) and call it a day. Pull the engine apart in a couple of years and inspect the lifter bores. If they are "wobbled" out of spec just get them sleeved with silicon bronze.
Something you must consider is that many people go with the flow and sometimes ignorance is bliss. People will run their engines without cracking them open for a long time and discover later that their lifter bores are shot.
The 86B/ k8 equivalent will pull hard to 7 grand. More than likely the torque/hp will drop off sooner though.
If you want a tad more out of a smaller duration cam put some 1.5:1 rockers for more valve lift.
dont get so fixated on a bigger duration cam on the street ESPECIALLY with a stock ratio trans. If you have goals of going to the track to maximize the best ET's possible you should go bigger on the cam BUT now with your stock trans ratios.
I should talk  I'm running an fk47 with my 2332. Its very streetable with my short gearbox but my goals are consistant 11's on 94 octane pumpgas with my 10:1 c/r engine. I really miss my 2110 with W125 cam. That engine was an absolute pleasure to drive on the street and it only cracked 14.5's in the 1/4 but my superbeetle weighed over 2100lbs.
Problem is you've never put 2 different cams in the same engine. You'll notice that there is differences in driveablity. Just remember you can compensate driveability by feathering the throttle.
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Ken Taber
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Joined: October 17, 2006
Posts: 123
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject: fk 10 vs k8 vs fk47 |
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| Alen U is on the right track. The 47 is the next cam I want to try. I have a k10 in an 89x94 with a 108 lobe center and a k10 with a 103 lobe center in a 88x94 . A k10 in a 84x94 and another k10 in a 78x90.5. Head are 44x37.5 with from 8.0 to 9.6 compression. Carb are 48 idfs with from 38mm vents to 41.8 vents. You have given me the incentive to try a 47 and 48 series. |
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Alan_U
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Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:30 am Post subject: Re: fk 10 vs k8 vs fk47 |
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| Ken Taber wrote: |
| Alen U is on the right track. The 47 is the next cam I want to try. I have a k10 in an 89x94 with a 108 lobe center and a k10 with a 103 lobe center in a 88x94 . A k10 in a 84x94 and another k10 in a 78x90.5. Head are 44x37.5 with from 8.0 to 9.6 compression. Carb are 48 idfs with from 38mm vents to 41.8 vents. You have given me the incentive to try a 47 and 48 series. |
I wouldn't go to gungho on the larger duration cams. When I do take my car to the track this year I'll be shifting at 7200rpms maybe 100 rpms more.
The larger duration cams will need to wake up from more static compression. By saying this, even my fk47 is really asking/wanting more compression than my 10:1 c/r. An fk46 might give more torque down low and still make power when I shift at 7200rpms. The benefit of the fk47 (my experimentation) is that I get more cam lift so inturn I get more valve lift. My other 2332 will be fitted with another set of udo becker tool steel lifters with an fk46. I'll have to see how that engine runs.
No need to beat the crap out of your engine if the heads dont flow enough for 8000rpms. Shifting at 7200 rpms I made the same ET's and MPH when I shifted at 8300rpms. No use abusing the engine if no power is made at higher rpms.
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Ken Taber
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Joined: October 17, 2006
Posts: 123
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 12:53 pm Post subject: fk 10 |
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| Most people do not know but the k8 and fk10 are not 40 series cams. They were ground by Engle many years befor the 40 series came out. In the mid 1980s I dyno'd a 2180 with an unknown cam for an off road racer. I saw it come on almost a 1000 rpms below where the k8 comes on. Even though the duration at 0.50 is more on the k10 than that of the k8 it runs better than the k8 at a lower rpm. I profiled the cam in this motor and call Gene , told him how will it worked and he had Engle grind it. That is where the fk 10 came from. The ramps on k8s and k10s are not as steep as the 40 series. Just because on paper the duration at 0.50 for the k8 is 258 and the fk 10 is 268 (originally ) now 266. you would expect the k8 to have better bottom end , It does not as we proved on the dyno and then putting it in the car . Ask bones 53 how it works in his 2080 lb Ghia |
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jamestwo
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Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 2203
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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I've ran the FK-42, 43, 44 and 45. all stump pullers. There is little reason to consider the 42 or 43 in a sedan with a 20 liter motor as the 44 and 45 both have great torque.
The 44 is my personal favorite. I ran 12's with it with a near stock ratio box.( i had a 1.31 3rd vs 1.26 stock)
The 44 and 45 both have extremely fast ramps, this is why they make more power and torque. The down side, as Alan mentions is they are ahard on the valve train.
The FK-8 is the best cam for a TRUE hot rod daily driver.
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Ken Taber
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:23 pm Post subject: k8 vs fk10 |
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| I am woundering if you have tried a fk10? Our dyno and street testing has proved the fk 10 is a better street cam than a k8 |
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Ken Taber
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Joined: October 17, 2006
Posts: 123
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: Reply to jamestwo |
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| Have you ever dyno'd the motors with the fk 44and45 cams? . One of my next test motors is to compair the fk-10 to fk46. I am also going to test an fk-47 and fk-48 in either my 88x94 or 89x94. I have an fk-10 in the 89x94 , 44x37.5 clyde berg heads and 48 idfs with 42mm vents. It makes 195 hp on the dyno with out the orange county factor. |
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Bones 53
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 661
Location: Reno NV
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| That's 195HP at 4888 feet. Wasn't that also at 5400 RPM - I can't remember that far back. |
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jamestwo
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: k8 vs fk10 |
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I'm interested, post the proof.
Also, it's likely a larger cam would make more torque in a 2470cc motor, I was talking about the average 2110-2276cc motor.
| Ken Taber wrote: |
| I am woundering if you have tried a fk10? Our dyno and street testing has proved the fk 10 is a better street cam than a k8 |
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Bones 53
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 661
Location: Reno NV
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| James send me your email and I'll send you a graph of the K8 and K10. I can attach it in an email but haven't figured out how to post in here. |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| jamestwo wrote: |
| The FK-8 is the best cam for a TRUE hot rod daily driver. |
I love my 2180 with K8.
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Alan_U
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Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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Not only would engine displacement be a variable to cam selection. The characteristics of how the head flows from .050 - .550+ valve lift is a also a factor.
I guess typically a smaller duration cam will give you better bottom end characteristics than a larger duration.
The cam will give the window for valve opening and closing timing events. Induction and exhaust is also part of the recipe. Perhaps in the dyno results the K8 didn't "appreciate" the vents in the carbs  So many variables to say "this cam is the best"
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