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Pelikan
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008
Posts: 61
Location: Los Angeles
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 Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:55 am Post subject: Got a GEX, What Are My Chances? |
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When I went to grad school, I had to sell my primary vehicle (Audi A3) to fund the move. I figured I wouldn't need a car out there, but inevitably I'm going to.
So I have a hobby Super I've been working on for years. It's effectively a finished car at this point. All I have to do is take it to my mechanic to get everything aligned and adjusted, and bingo, I got me a ride. Here's the problem: a few years back, before I knew any better, I bought a GEX engine on the strength of the Hot VWs ad alone.
That's what's in the car right now, and to make matters worse, it's an 1835, and it's gonna be driven in SoCal (ie: hot). Is there any possibility I can put 50 or so thousand trouble free miles on this car before a rebuild/replacement? Is there any easy way for me or my mechanic to find out if this engine's a dud before putting it into daily driver service?
Are there any cost effective, reliable long block solutions out there if I'm up the creek? When I say cost effective, I mean Ramen Noodles budget cost effective... |
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chiprodriguez
Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2007
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| I think the most cost effective thing to do before you install the motor would be to swap the 92s in favor of 90.5s making it a 1776 if it indeed is an 1835. However, I think that 50,000 miles is achievable from an 1835 assuming you have relatively low compression, run a quality dog house style cooler and have all the correct cooling tin in place as well as a good engine compartment seal and run no less than 91 octane premium fuel. As far as making sure its a dud or not without tearing into the motor, make sure the end play is set correctly and if the motor has compression, it should be good to go. How old is the motor? |
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Pelikan
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008
Posts: 61
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| chiprodriguez wrote: |
| I think the most cost effective thing to do before you install the motor would be to swap the 92s in favor of 90.5s making it a 1776 if it indeed is an 1835. However, I think that 50,000 miles is achievable from an 1835 assuming you have relatively low compression, run a quality dog house style cooler and have all the correct cooling tin in place as well as a good engine compartment seal and run no less than 91 octane premium fuel. As far as making sure its a dud or not without tearing into the motor, make sure the end play is set correctly and if the motor has compression, it should be good to go. How old is the motor? |
The engine itself was purchased a couple years ago, and installed two summers ago (before the car was completely done). It hasn't been run at all yet, no compression checks, nada. I guess I'll have my mechanic give it a run through, and check those things you mentioned, and go from there. Fingers crossed... |
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Bart Dunn
Samba Consiglieri
Joined: May 09, 2004
Posts: 2354
Location: Sea level (Mid Atlantic)
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| chiprodriguez wrote: |
| I think the most cost effective thing to do before you install the motor would be to swap the 92s in favor of 90.5s making it a 1776 if it indeed is an 1835. However, I think that 50,000 miles is achievable from an 1835 assuming you have relatively low compression, run a quality dog house style cooler and have all the correct cooling tin in place as well as a good engine compartment seal and run no less than 91 octane premium fuel. As far as making sure its a dud or not without tearing into the motor, make sure the end play is set correctly and if the motor has compression, it should be good to go. How old is the motor? |
That's incredibly optimistic with a GEX product. You've got a good chance that the engine has mismatched case halves, reused internal parts with god knows what kind of wear or outright damage, missing dowell pins for the crank bearings, yadda yadda yadda.
If it MUST be a very reliable engine, I'd start over. If you've got some wiggle room, sure, drive it and see what happens. But it'll definitely be an exercise in uncertainty. GEX blows huge, huge chunks and should've been out of business years ago. That they're still pumping out their 100% shitty products is a testament to the effectiveness of glossy ads.
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79358
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Drive it until it fails, then suck up the loss and buy a good engine.
| Pelikan wrote: |
| I bought a GEX engine on the strength of the Hot VWs ad alone. |
You know anyone can buy an ad in HVW. All it takes is money.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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Last edited by Glenn on Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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MrBreeze
Samba Hitman
Joined: October 06, 2002
Posts: 5643
Location: Lawn Guyland, Noo Yawk
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Start saving now and pray.
Sorry, but that's the sad truth about GEX engines. I had one back in 1989 and it lasted 1700 miles before the crank broke in 3 places.
You're playing Russian roulette. I've heard of GEX's going 50k, but I've heard of a boatload more grenading before 10k.
Best of luck to you.
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-=Rob
WTB: Bay Shore or Queensboro VW Frames
HBB 1984-2009
RW 1943-2011
ER 1964-2023 |
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Pelikan
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008
Posts: 61
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Right, that seems to be the consensus. All the tin and upper end stuff (carbs, etc) are new, though. Couldn't I either buy or build up a longblock, and slap all that stuff on there? If that's possible, what would be the most reliable and cost effective route for a daily driver? It's got dual Weber carbs, IDF 40's if memory serves, so if I were to do a build or a buy, it'd have to be compatible with those. |
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rustfree1967bug
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Joined: November 16, 2006
Posts: 3440
Location: minnesota
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Yes you could build up your own longblock then swap your carbs, tins, ignition, exhaust over to that. That might actually be the best way to go.
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79358
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| rustfree1967bug wrote: |
| Yes you could build up your own longblock then swap your carbs, tins, ignition, exhaust over to that. That might actually be the best way to go. |
Why not just wait till it fails?
If it runs well, it's foolish to swap in another long block. And what will you do with the old long block? If it runs I doubt you'll toss it in the trash and i hope you won't sell it.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| rustfree1967bug wrote: |
| Yes you could build up your own longblock then swap your carbs, tins, ignition, exhaust over to that. That might actually be the best way to go. |
Why not just wait till it fails?
If it runs well, it's foolish to swap in another long block. And what will you do with the old long block? If it runs I doubt you'll toss it in the trash and i hope you won't sell it. |
In other words, wait until next Thursday, right?
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79358
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Hey... not everyone fails.. that soon.
I've heard "fish stories" of one lasting many many miles.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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didget69
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 4941
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
Hey... not everyone fails.. that soon.
I've heard "fish stories" of one lasting many many miles. |
And they were usually running the famed '100-mpg Fish carburetor' at the time...
bnc
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I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door. |
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Bart Dunn
Samba Consiglieri
Joined: May 09, 2004
Posts: 2354
Location: Sea level (Mid Atlantic)
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| didget69 wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
Hey... not everyone fails.. that soon.
I've heard "fish stories" of one lasting many many miles. |
And they were usually running the famed '100-mpg Fish carburetor' at the time...
bnc |
Those were just people with senses of humor who had GEX stickers printed up to stick on their fan shrouds. Like the physics guys who get bumper stickers that say "if my headlights are red I'm going too fast."
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Not enough car seats fit into my:
'58 Beetle convertible
'58 Beetle sedan |
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Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Bart Dunn wrote: |
| didget69 wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
Hey... not everyone fails.. that soon.
I've heard "fish stories" of one lasting many many miles. |
And they were usually running the famed '100-mpg Fish carburetor' at the time...
bnc |
Those were just people with senses of humor who had GEX stickers printed up to stick on their fan shrouds. Like the physics guys who get bumper stickers that say "if my headlights are red I'm going too fast." |
As ScottK's sigline once said, "There are 10 types of people in this world -- those who understand binary, and those who don't".
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West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943) |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79358
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Gary wrote: |
| As ScottK's sigline once said, "There are 10 types of people in this world -- those who understand binary, and those who don't". |
Geek.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 32941
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
Why not just wait till it fails? If it runs well, it's foolish to swap in another long block. And what will you do with the old long block? If it runs I doubt you'll toss it in the trash and i hope you won't sell it. |
I'm agreeing with Glenn on this, try it, see how it does. 1835cc is nothing to be afraid of, and southern California is not nearly as hot as what my 1835cc has seen in Arizona, or crossing the desert to Pacific Coast numerous times. Sure, maybe we'll all do 1776 (90.5mm) next time, but might as well run it and see.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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andk5591
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Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16798
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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OK - I do not have any personal experience with GEX - only what I have seen here and I doubt if EVERY engine that they build is bad, but you do see quite a few nightmare posts here.
Here's a suggestion - if you havent installed it, you could send it back. So you will probably lose the shipping cost. Then start over and find a builder with a good rep.
I had a situation a few years ago with a shop that built a great 1776 for my buggy, and I later bought 2 rebuil trannys - one was great - the other one was good EXCEPT the case was garbage and leaked like a sieve at the axle flange. Then I bought a turn-key 1600 that I was VERY unhappy with. So - I had a 50% success rate.
This shop had a pretty good reputation but it seemed there was some internal issues within the company that I paid the price for. I no longer take a chance ordering from them anymore and have since been building my own engines. So. like Clint Eastwood says - "Do you feel lucky?"
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D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79358
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| andk5591 wrote: |
| Here's a suggestion - if you havent installed it, you could send it back. |
You must of missed this:
| Pelikan wrote: |
| Here's the problem: a few years back, before I knew any better, I bought a GEX engine on the strength of the Hot VWs ad alone. |
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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TonyPgh
Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2008
Posts: 1465
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenn wrote: |
Drive it until it fails, then suck up the loss and buy a good engine.
| Pelikan wrote: |
| I bought a GEX engine on the strength of the Hot VWs ad alone. |
You know anyone can buy an ad in HVW. All it takes is money. |
If it wasn't for this forum, I would have not known. They do have nice ads in Hot VW every month.
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Pelikan
Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008
Posts: 61
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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I talked to my father (the super is at my parents place; they let me use a port in their garage to work on it). He had one of his mechanic buddies come over and run the engine, after I told him what they were saying about GEX on the forums. Apparently it was only running on three cylinders because the spark plug wasn't seated right, or something along those lines. Within a few minutes, a part in the oil pump was sheared off, and it lost oil pressure.
So that's where my GEX is at, after about five minutes of run time. I'm putting some strong thought into salvaging what I can off this engine, and building up a 1776 from new parts, or having a cost effective long block mocked up. I'll probably have about $1000 to work with, so hopefully I can do it for that. |
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