removing the thermostat

[thelazerviking]

hi, i was wondering if it would be much of a deal to remove the thermostat on my 71 type 1. if i do i'm keeping the vanes and i'd weld them open. i don't plan on really ever driving in the cold weather so i don't think warm up shoudl be too much of a problem but i want to know if it is. it's going to be pretty much for racing purposes. would it be a pretty bad idea to take out the thermostat even if i welded the vanes open? thanks, james
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"If I buy the policy, can I be the beneficiary?"
Randy In Maine

[Glenn]

You should leave it connected.

But if you must... just remove the 13mm nut that holds the thermostat bracket to the engine. Then just unscrew the thermostat.

If the spring is on the linkage it will keep the flaps open. If it's missing just wire the linkage open.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

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[thelazerviking]

oh good idea, thanks


....but am i going to have any engine troubles at all if i do this other than it will take longer to warm up? or would there be any troubles in taking longer to warm up just in itself?
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"If I buy the policy, can I be the beneficiary?"
Randy In Maine

[Glenn]

On short trips it won't warmup and you will get condensation inside the engine case.

You might also increase bearing wear.

If it works... then leave it.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare

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[Droolman]

living in texas....i have only used the theromstat on one of my bugs, that being one of my 67's and that is because it is all original...i have driven thousands of miles and never had a bearing failure....and warming up in below freezing conditions has never been a problem....i have 2 67's and i have never noticed any differance in condensation in the oil....now in the northern states....it might be a whole differant ballgame....i have seen what happens when they stick closed though.....its not pretty, but also im all about original and those little things are getting hard to find.
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1967 blue bug

1965 drag bug

[Towel Rail]

[bugnut68]

[Bruce]

[fredybear]

This is one of my favorite subjects......make sure u put a head temp guage in if u leave the whole setup in.....cause bad things can happen......and dont weld em open take em out if your not gonna use the whole setup...

[bugnut68]

[fredybear]

[partonkevin]

I've always heard to leave the cooling flaps in, even if you remove the thermostat. Apparently, the flaps directs more cooling air to the head where you need it most and less cooling air to the cylinders where you need it least. That being said, I run a single port shroud with no thermostat or flaps (anybody have that stuff laying around?), and it seems to take a while for my car to warm up as it's getting colder out. And I run MUCH better when I am warmed up!

[bugnut68]

[Andrew]

VW spent something like a million dollars developing and testing the whole cooling system with flaps/thermostat thing. I gotta think they got something right for their money...
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-Andrew

[bugnut68]

[Droolman]

bruce, i have seen what can happen personally....my father went to work as a vw mechanic in 1959 and retired in 2003 and i was born in 63. i think me and my brother had to tear down every motor and trans that came through his shop....i myself dont work on VW's for a living, but built my first engine when i was 10....and never looked back and i have seen it all...the last time i seen flaps stick was about a year ago on a friends car. it melted the pistons.....im just glad the aircooled VW was built...i will never give up my VW's, but my feelings on VOLKSWAGEN putting it there because they designed it that way and so it must be needed, maybe. i do believe VW put them there to restrict airflow not increase it...i dont ever remember there engineers building a aircooled motor that produced over 300 hp..or a trans that could handle it....so i dont put alot of trust in their research and development team.....what you see running down the road today is because of all the shops and suppliers right here in the good old USA....right or wrong i dont run it.....and other than a 1500 the smallest engine i have on the street is a 2110.....anybody that has taken the time to research this. hats off to you...the only difference i have noticed in the 67 with the 1500 with a thermostat and say my 67 with the 2110 is that the 1500 heater stays consistant....with the 2110, i find that i have to adjust the heater often....by this i mean that on the same 175 mile trip, once i get the heater set where it is comfortable with the 1500 i rarely have to touch it..the 2110 i have to adjust up and down....it will cool down on the open road part of the trip....this is on say a 30 to 40 deg. day
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1967 blue bug

1965 drag bug

[bugs/buggy]

I just had the misfortune of my tail lamp wire getting suck into the fan after reinstalling my motor. In the process it got tied up with the spring that hold the flap in the open position. No thermo just flaps. Now my question is will the flaps be open or closed without the spring? The linkage still move freely by hand. I have driven the car limited miles with no noticable increase in cht (guaged). I'm thinking that the volumn of air from the fan axually blow the flaps in the open position. In respect to wireing them open should the linkage be pushed to the right side or to the left? I really don't want to remove the motor just to replace the spring.

[Jake Raby]

Unless you are in a super Cold climate the thermostat is not that necessary... I did quite a bit of experimentation with T stats when developing and proving both my DTM systems and I'll honestly say that unless you drive like a Grandma that the differences are pretty Nil in direct comparison... I'm talking like just a few minutes difference, even on a 20 degree January day here..

VW did spend a lot of money on the T stat and cooling system and I do feel that the flaps and all other tin MUST be in place and my testing has proven this.

One interesting tidbit is that my Austrian Built Swiss Army Surplus Pinzgauer with it's 2.5L Inline AIRCOOLED engine has no flaps and no thermostat at all and the factory never gave it one-

It warms up just fine here in the US as well...

I have to go now- But I'll make a post later explaining exactly how the flaps and T stat work on the TIV and the kind of air flow percentages they dictate to the oil cooler and each bank of cylinders...
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"

[fredybear]

[quote="Jake Raby"]

VW did spend a lot of money on the T stat and cooling system and I do feel that the flaps and all other tin MUST be in place and my testing has proven this.

quote]


Your type 1 and 4 DTM r made without pervisions for the flaps or am i missing something???


So if you say the Flaps must be in place what your selling to the public is junk.......am i wrong????

[Jake Raby]

The VW system was designed WITH the flaps IN. The TI and TIV DTM were both designed with no flaps in place. I did test them with flaps in place and removed and also directly against the stock system with flaps installed and removed as well and that was done in January for good comparisons.

The TI and TIV DTM were designed and further tested with a performance mindset- I don't give a damn how they do on a 1600 TI or even a 1776- My smallest TI test engine netted 181 BHP and those are the guys that need the cooling capability of the TI DTM- those engines have no problem warming up!
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"