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Firecrusader
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2005
Posts: 137
Location: Above SoCal, Below NorCal
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 Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:59 pm Post subject: Dual circuit master cylinder |
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Looked into the archives, found a post from Eric and Barb about upgrading the dual circuit master cylinder for the split bus using a 71 bus M/C.
I am in the process of doing this. Has anyone else done it?
Was it easy to accomplish? Where did you (re) locate your resevoir? Is it easy, or a pain to get at when refilling?
And finally, I am an idiot when it comes to reading and comprehending. I need pictures to help figure how to do things, so if you have a pic or two, that would be greatly appreciated.
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Brad M
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Joined: April 12, 2004
Posts: 280
Location: Belmont NC
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Done it and love it but I keep all the parts I took of so I can put it back to stack as some people don't like it because it's not original. I have also replaced all of my flex lines at each wheel and recommend that also if you don't know the age of them. Here is some good reading for you that helped me out when I did mine. http://www.aircooledtech.com/dual_MC_upgrade/
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Brad
61 Double Cab (Sold 8/7/10)
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mintonman
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Joined: October 20, 2003
Posts: 4246
Location: between Trenton NJ. & Philly Pa.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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The only reason I could see hooking up a dual circuit master is if you were upgrading to disc brakes up front. This is the reason I upgraded to a dual circuit master. You need a spacer kit & a resevior from a rabbit. Cip1 sells the spacer kit & I'm sure you can get a rabbit resevior anywhere, but not 100%. With the rabbit resevior you fill your master the same way you fill it now theough the hole in the floor & the hardest part is bending your brake lines to meet up with the holes in the new master. Here is the link for the spacer kit.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC20%2D4100
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Hoockd on fonicks werkt for mee?
under the influance "DUH" |
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Damon22
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Joined: January 03, 2006
Posts: 238
Location: New Forest, Ingerland.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| mintonman wrote: |
| The only reason I could see hooking up a dual circuit master is if you were upgrading to disc brakes up front. |
You'd remember the other reason if you were barreling down a hill and your brakes failed...
Got one for my 56, CSP in Germany do a kit with a dual reservoir. |
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Firecrusader
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2005
Posts: 137
Location: Above SoCal, Below NorCal
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the info.
All the brake lines, hard, rubber, wheel cylinders, pads are going to be replaced for new ones.
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the hardest part is bending your brake lines to meet up with the holes in the new master.
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I am assuming you are talking about the hard lines.
Did you get a used piece for the extra line that is recommended along with the "T" fitting? Or is there a place to get new. |
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Brad M
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Joined: April 12, 2004
Posts: 280
Location: Belmont NC
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Firecrusader wrote: |
Thanks for the info.
All the brake lines, hard, rubber, wheel cylinders, pads are going to be replaced for new ones.
| Quote: |
the hardest part is bending your brake lines to meet up with the holes in the new master.
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I am assuming you are talking about the hard lines.
Did you get a used piece for the extra line that is recommended along with the "T" fitting? Or is there a place to get new. |
Yes the hard line that needs to be bent is the only hard part but go slow and don’t bend it in too tight of a radius and you wont kink it. I think the "T" is only needed with the 67 only MC for the front brakes since the left and right lines connect to the "T" ad then to the MC. I was able to hook my left and right lines up front directly to the MC and the single line to the rear was coaxed in place and the other holes where filled with brake light switches even though only one of the switches has the wires connected to it. I found it easer if you loosely fit everything together first and make sure the threads aren’t crossed on the lines and then tighten them up all the way. before tightening the bolts through the spacer to the mount. It really is an afternoon job if you use a pressure bleeder (Motive brand or similar) to speed that part up.
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Brad
61 Double Cab (Sold 8/7/10)
74 Standard Beetle |
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mintonman
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Joined: October 20, 2003
Posts: 4246
Location: between Trenton NJ. & Philly Pa.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I'm talking about the hard lines that connect to the master. If I remember correctly, 1 line had to be bent around to the other side of the master, but I forget which one.
I only drove my single a couple times befor I ripped it apart to make some changes & one of the first thing I changed was the drums up front to discs(CSP), Those drums werent' gonna cut it with the way I drive, not to mention all the other idiots on the road.
So I'm guessing if you hook up a dual master it applies more pressure to the front drums?? Is that why people are running a dual cicuit master with drums all around?
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Hoockd on fonicks werkt for mee?
under the influance "DUH" |
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Firecrusader
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2005
Posts: 137
Location: Above SoCal, Below NorCal
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| So I'm guessing if you hook up a dual master it applies more pressure to the front drums?? Is that why people are running a dual cicuit master with drums all around? |
From what I read, the main reason was in case one of the wheel cylinders went out, or a brake line broke, your whole system wouldnt "Crash" on you... pun intended..
By going with the dual system , you still have either a front or rear braking system.
I am doing this since my bus will be a daily commuter. I travel down the hill from 4500' above sea level to just about sea level. And then back up the hill home. Braking is one of my concerns. (So is a bigger motor)
And yes, I am thinking of upgrading to the disc brake set up. Did they push out the wheel? Or is the offset like stock.
I am trying to get the bus on the road, so all the $$$ is going towards that endeavor now, but soon after I will UPGRADE>>>!!  |
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mintonman
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Joined: October 20, 2003
Posts: 4246
Location: between Trenton NJ. & Philly Pa.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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Makes sence. The csp disc set up keeps your wheels in the same spot, but it cost a shit load. I noticed airkewld is working on a wide 5 disc set for type 2's & their price is around $850.00
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Hoockd on fonicks werkt for mee?
under the influance "DUH" |
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P-Dub
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Joined: October 17, 2002
Posts: 1065
Location: Oh, hi!
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| mintonman wrote: |
| The only reason I could see hooking up a dual circuit master is if you were upgrading to disc brakes up front. |
Or you own a '67 and can't bear the thought of paying $150+ for a master cylinder.
I used the Wolfgang adapter with a cheap bay dual circut master cylinder. The stock '67 resivoir lined up perfectly with the hole in the floor. The electrical conections needed to be extended by an inch or so and the splash pan either needs to be modified or left off. So far I have left it off since I just can't cut the '67-only splash pan. |
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roberto
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Joined: December 10, 2002
Posts: 834
Location: West Central Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| So far I have left it off since I just can't cut the '67-only splash pan. |
the M/C cutout for the 67 only M/C is the difference of the splash pan.
are you saying that when converting to bay M/C, still needs modified |
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Wayland
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Joined: December 29, 2005
Posts: 500
Location: Lasqueti Island B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I did this conversion on my '65, usind a late bus m/c, a reservoir from a '91 Jetta (one off a Rabbit works too) and a home-made spacer. I made my original "temporary" spacer from 3/8" plywood (NOT the reccommended material, but I'm still using it) and another, better spacer from 3 pieces of 1/8" aluminum plate. I also used grade 5 bolts with nylocks nuts to secure it. Type2.com has a good write-up on this procedure. |
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oilspot
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Joined: July 11, 2002
Posts: 909
Location: Southern NM
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:49 am Post subject: |
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I just pulled a nearly new MC from a 71' bus. I need a MC for my 67.
It looks like the 67 resevoir will fit, but I haven't tried yet.
Why are people using a spacer block and not just cutting down the pushrod???
If it's the aluminum "sleve" quide on the nose of the 71' MC that should be easy enough to cut off with a cutoff disc and a dremel.
I just figured I'd ask before I start any mods on a perfectly good 71' MC.
I don't feel like paying the $$$ for the 67only MC. And if I can use the 71' unit I don't have to mess with the hard brake lines that go into the MC. |
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P-Dub
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Joined: October 17, 2002
Posts: 1065
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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As far as I know the spacer is to make the resevoir center in the hole in the floor. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
And yes the splash pan on a '67 needs to be modified to use the spacer. The spacer interferes with the pan as well as the rear most electrical wires. |
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Brad M
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Joined: April 12, 2004
Posts: 280
Location: Belmont NC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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No the spacer is so you don’t need to cut your pushrod. You can either cut the rod and bevel the end round again or use the spacer but if you don’t then no matter how far you adjust the rod it will always be pressing the brake slightly. And yes the 67 MC reservoir should work fine but since they are getting harder to get you can use the Volvo like Nate or the Rabbit one like I did. BTW those rods aren’t getting any easier to locate so consider that before you cut yours. And any way you look at it spacers come out cheaper if you make your own. Here is a link to an article on Nates site that gives allot of info; http://www.aircooledtech.com/dual_MC_upgrade/
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Brad
61 Double Cab (Sold 8/7/10)
74 Standard Beetle |
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a-train
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Joined: October 11, 2003
Posts: 702
Location: Issaquah via Parkland, WA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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I have a '67 and am putting in some disc brakes. Since the '67 MC is already dual reservoir, do I still need to get a spacer? or is that just if you are converting single to dual MC? 'can you just swap a 71 in for the 67?
Thanks.
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Brad M
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Joined: April 12, 2004
Posts: 280
Location: Belmont NC
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Just if your converting to dual and using an non 67 (High Priced) MC. If you change to another year you may need the spacer you will know when you bolt it up because the rod will try to push the MC as your tightening it. The only thing you may need for disc's is a residual pressure valve but your kit or the manufacture will tell you if you need it.
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Brad
61 Double Cab (Sold 8/7/10)
74 Standard Beetle |
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vwhooligan
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Joined: January 26, 2004
Posts: 202
Location: Orlando, FL
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone heard of using a fox master cylinder to replace the one in my '67 which has a slight leak. Don't feel like paying two bills or so for a new one.
Thanks,
Chance
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oilspot
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Joined: July 11, 2002
Posts: 909
Location: Southern NM
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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A brake pushrod has a 8mmx1.25 threads on it.
I'll just set aside the stock one, and cut the head off a m8x1.25 bolt, round the end, and not spend the cash for the spacer.
As far as cutting the "sleve" off the 71 Master cylinder... any feedback on that. It just looks like it would make pushrod adjustment impossible.
I just got my bus up on jackstands so I can start fitting/ fiddling with it. |
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