Nazi affiliated VW military vehicles... Moral debate.

[VintageVulture]

I have the opportunity, as a quality VW body shop owner, to do all body and paint on a 1944 Schwimmwagen. I am flattered that the owner has considered me the most capable of all the other body repairman available for this project. My catch is that, well, there is a strong hint of Nazi pride wrapped up into this project. I am feeling weary in regards to any involvement at this time. Should I get over it? Have any of you debated this issue as well?

Hey- I did a search before I started this topic- forgive me if it's being repeated.

[MedicTed]

If the owner of the car wants to use it to promote the Nazi ideals, that is his agenda. As a business owner you have a right to make money by accepting work. However, if you feel that working on the job will cause YOU distress, then you certainly have the right to refuse it. Your peace of mind needs to come before all other considerations. Perhaps a discussion with the owner is in order before you accept the job.
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[steven wood]

I would do the work. By doing the work, it doesn't make you a Nazi or racist. I was into VW's all threw high school and used to get called a Nazi by my friends but it was all in fun. If someone thinks your a Nazi just by working on a antique car, then they have problems of there own.

[Kubel Nick]

A Schwimm or any WW2 German vehicle is not a Nazi car, it's a vintage vehicle. Unless a car is shaped like a Swatzika I wouldn't worry about working on an old WW2 German car. Go to any US Military museums, even the ones that are ran by the military like the one near my place in Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland (where the 1st stolen Kubel was supposdely taken to to be tested), there are tons of German and other foreign makes proudly displayed there. If a passer-by has a problem with it then they are closed-minded. It's a car, nothing more, nothing less. If a passerby complains about the car then they are closed minded.

Now if the owners are Nazis, then that's up to you if you decide to do business with them or not, same goes with anyone you don't want to be associated with (drug dealers, etc).

[suckmyexhaust]

[vintagemx0]

My thinking is in accord with MedicTed. The moral debate should be towards the service you are providing for the ideals of your client, not the vehicle itself. Military vehicles are sought after by people of all walks of life for varying reasons, and just because a particular vehicle was employed by the Nazi regime does not make it inheritly bad requiring that all traces are banished in shame.

A schwimmwagen is a very rare automobile and a historic peice of mechanical design. It was designed by German engineers, not Nazi facists. The Nazis didn't have the brain capacity to be able to design anything. I've known people who collect WWII stuff including Nazi flags and medals and such things and these particular people were not Nazis by any means - just collectors with a historical interest in rare and tangible items.

I read an article about a kubelwagen in Austrailia that was originally a Nazi Afrika Korp vehicle and he had it restored to it's original markings including the DAK symbol on the doors which was a palm tree with a swastika in the middle of it. He had a moral dilema with that, but he said that most people take it for what it is and don't assume he's a Nazi.

I don't think people view the restoration or interest in such vehicles as evidence of one's beliefs and ideals. I think you should do it and feel honored to be entrusted with such a rare and valuable vehicle unless you feel you are providing a service to a particular person you don't wish to affiliate yourself with. IMO...
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[53 0val]

Would you work on a Mercedes SSK? The ultimate Nazi statement to the automotive world..............never heard anyone complain about the big Mercedes. Hitler, Goring , Hess......they all owned Mercedes. You should worry about a German military vehicle? Most German soliders were NOT Nazis.
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[Rick]

[VintageVulture]

I truly appreciate the replies so far- This topic has had my mind and soul stirring for about a day. I've got a few WW2 family members to talk to before I go ahead with this job. I firmly agree that this vehicle isn't really NAZI, as much as it's a machine developed and built by Germans under a Nazi thumb, but the affiliation IS there.

If I do this, I'll keep you all posted on the project.

This is the kind of job I have only dreamt of taking on, ever since I was a young kid- Now that it's about to happen, I'm a bit surprised with my own hesitation. I guess I am adding too much emotion, but I have great reason too. I have a lot of family that saw first hand what a Nazi regime did. Enough said, thanks.

[EverettB]

Restoring a car, regardless of its history, should not be an issue.

Dealing with owners that are verified Nazis should be.
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[Hebster52]

If one want to get nifty even refusing to restoration of a German WW2 vehicle could be taken as a denial of the holocaust (spelling?)...

The issue about "Nazi logos" have been up many times too. The thing is that the Nazi's use of the ancient goodwill logo's made people darken the original use of the ancient logo's.

The logo's excisted way before Nazi's ever exicted, even in several totally different cultures in positive ways...

Oops! This is starting to go too far...

I agree with the previous. As long as the Schwimmer is restored only because it is a rare Schwimmer it is an obligation , but if it only is restored for the owner to point out his positive view of Nazi's etc then it gets complicated...
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[qwerty]

Be aware that the steel alloy used on the schwimmers during wartime is different that what is standard today, and is much more difficult to work with - it is very difficult to TIG/MIG weld to, the welding wire just balls up and burns away, kind of like when you try to solder and the temperature is not right. My friend Ray is working on my schwimmer making some repairs, and it is not easy. Better be sure to build this into your quote or time estimates if there is a lot of metal work to be done.

Also BTW, there are reproduction parts available made in Germany and the eastern bloc countries. I have purchased the metal sections under the spare tire, at the base of the windshield, the battery box, and the ribbed sections which "point" to the hooks at the rear. If you need contact info about these parts, you can PM me.

Good luck.
Mark

[John Moxon]

[JollieOllie]

Long time reader, first time poster...

Both my grandfathers (German)were in the war. They were footsoldiers (not NAZIs) which is most likely the case for most of the users of that particular Schwimmwagen. Just every day soldiers doing what they have to do.

Restore that Schwimmwagen. The jerk that wants it restored will probably not be the last owner; think of it as taking one for the team to help that piece of history survive.

Nice to see another one being saved...

[russell]

if the guy that owns it basically wants you to make it a nazi looker and he is paying you up to your eyeballs, maybe you can tell him to not tell anyone who restored it for him. i mean, if he says restoration courtesy of your shop, all it needs is one person to say your place is a nazi place and people will start to hate you and try to bring you business down OR the people will admire all the work gone into it and give your business work, its an either or, don't ask don't tell situation i think.

when it comes to being called a nazi, i get that bullcrap all the time, mostly anyones combacks towards me are things like "red headed nazi" (suprisingly i mostly get that from the latinos at my school) its not that bad, i just ignore it.
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[vintagemx0]

Another thought to consider with these vehicles is that after the war, the British had jurisdiction over the Wolfsberg facility and worked very hard and cooperativley with the local infastructure and work force to produce what they could. There was a need for the occupying military forces, local officials, and important civilian workers to have transportation. Many war-time kubelwagens were given to various countries as part of a war reperations. Point is, immediately following the war when bitter hatred toward the Nazi regime was probably at it's all-time high, people welcomed the use of this automobile without drawing a connecting line between the cars and the Nazis. It's a machine. It's practical and utilitarian.

I think the fact that the Nazis were using some transport trucks manufactured by Ford in Ford owned factories in Germany during the war is much more disturbing. Also, the bodies of the Kubelwagen were built by an American owned or co-owned by a company called Ambi-Budd in or around Berlin. American investment turning-out machines to fight Americans? Much more disturbing.
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[53 0val]

You are correct..........Ford was more of a Nazi than Porsche......In fact, Hitled gave him the Eagal Order, because he respected him so much. One of only two Americans to receive that award.
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[thebucket]

Will you work on Hondas and Toyotas? The japanese bombed Pearl Harbor you know. Hell in Hitlers early years he was suppported by Henry Ford. Bet you would still paint a 40 ford though.
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[Towel Rail]

I could see a little apprehension if it were going to be used in a Nazi pride parade with a sign saying "Another Short's EuroCustom Restoration!", but apart from that, cars are pretty amoral by themselves.

[Bruce]