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Mint Jams
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2009
Posts: 62
Location: Mother Earth
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 Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:09 am Post subject: Single carb on Big Engine - 1915cc/2007cc/2017cc |
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Is it possible to run a big engine (1915cc/2007cc/2017cc) with a single carb?
Thanks. |
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grimace007
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2006
Posts: 2673
Location: swampville, florida
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:18 am Post subject: |
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possible?? yes.
plausible?? sure.
smart?? NO
single carbs are PITA to tune and dont net you the same performance or fuel economy the better suited 2 carb setup will.
but if its what ya got then you can make it work well enough with enough patience
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Brian
68 sedan
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Hey It is The Samba where well thought out rational answers can take a while and getting side tracked is normal. I was just lucky this time.  |
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Marv [UK]
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2009
Posts: 2225
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Single carb on Big Engine - 1915cc/2007cc/2017cc |
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| Mint Jams wrote: |
Is it possible to run a big engine (1915cc/2007cc/2017cc) with a single carb?
Thanks. |
in theory yes.
A single centre mounted carburettor is only supplying a single cylinder at a time anyway, the problems come when you think about the distance and turns the intake charge has to go through to get to the cylinder.
The off road crowd run single centre mounted dual barrel carbs so running a single carb should be no different.
Thats the short answer
which carb is a different ball game. Why would you want to though, especially when there are so many tried and tested to choose from for flat fours?
Saying that, i'm going to try out some odd carbs in the future, but on smaller engines
see what you can find and give it a go. not all carbs are suitable for the intake characteristics of a flat 4 though. Even some of the tried and tested ones need modification to work for some applications, the 48 IDA for example |
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1961bluebug
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Joined: November 11, 2002
Posts: 1137
Location: Czech Republic, Europe
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grimace007
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2006
Posts: 2673
Location: swampville, florida
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:28 am Post subject: |
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those engines you linked are so horribly under-carbuerated it would be unbearable to drive!
a 2 liter with a pict carb on it? get real!
1600 stock is under carbbed from the get go let alone adding more cc's to the engines displacement.
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Brian
68 sedan
Dallas Air Coolers
| perrib wrote: |
| Hey It is The Samba where well thought out rational answers can take a while and getting side tracked is normal. I was just lucky this time. |
| cr@M wrote: |
No one has any personal responsibility these days. This country is sue happy. Intelligence is no longer a requirement, just an accessory. |
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Marv [UK]
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2009
Posts: 2225
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| grimace007 wrote: |
those engines you linked are so horribly under-carbuerated it would be unbearable to drive!
a 2 liter with a pict carb on it? get real!
1600 stock is under carbbed from the get go let alone adding more cc's to the engines displacement. |
not necessarily. We don't know what has been done to the carbs.
The manifolds certainly look to have a bigger bore and the HP numbers as quoted certainly look reasonable for a daily drive motor
a 34 PICT has a 34mm throttle plate which is only 2mm smaller than a 36 DRLA. If the venturi's have been 'doctored' and the carb jetted correctly, there is no reason why it shouldn't be perfectly serviceable. OK, it's not going to have as great a performance as 34 ICT's due to manifold length and turns etc, nor DRLA's / IDF's and it is being strangled a bit, but it should still work perfectly well, just not to the HP it could have
It's not ideal, there is no debate about that, but it's not always about MAX performance. Better options are available, but you've got to admire the bone stock look of a 100 ish HP motor and if it's what someone wants and it works..... |
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grimace007
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2006
Posts: 2673
Location: swampville, florida
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:01 am Post subject: |
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maybe i was exaggerating a bit... on the unbearable to drive thing
im just not had my coffee yet. damn akward hours @ work
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Brian
68 sedan
Dallas Air Coolers
| perrib wrote: |
| Hey It is The Samba where well thought out rational answers can take a while and getting side tracked is normal. I was just lucky this time. |
| cr@M wrote: |
No one has any personal responsibility these days. This country is sue happy. Intelligence is no longer a requirement, just an accessory. |
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Loic
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2007
Posts: 6
Location: France
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:55 am Post subject: |
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i made a try a few weeks ago with a 2017cc engine.
A small video during the 80 to 120kph time test in 3rd gear.
Link
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Viande
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2008
Posts: 1719
Location: GA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Marv [UK] wrote: |
| grimace007 wrote: |
those engines you linked are so horribly under-carbuerated it would be unbearable to drive!
a 2 liter with a pict carb on it? get real!
1600 stock is under carbbed from the get go let alone adding more cc's to the engines displacement. |
not necessarily. We don't know what has been done to the carbs.
The manifolds certainly look to have a bigger bore and the HP numbers as quoted certainly look reasonable for a daily drive motor
a 34 PICT has a 34mm throttle plate which is only 2mm smaller than a 36 DRLA. If the venturi's have been 'doctored' and the carb jetted correctly, there is no reason why it shouldn't be perfectly serviceable. OK, it's not going to have as great a performance as 34 ICT's due to manifold length and turns etc, nor DRLA's / IDF's and it is being strangled a bit, but it should still work perfectly well, just not to the HP it could have
It's not ideal, there is no debate about that, but it's not always about MAX performance. Better options are available, but you've got to admire the bone stock look of a 100 ish HP motor and if it's what someone wants and it works..... |
Agreed, any carb will work it depends on your end goal. You can run dual IDA's on a 1600 or a 34 pict on a 2332. It's all about the package and the rpm range you are building toward. Remember the old fords with a 460ci engine and a 2 barrel carb? Ideal no, but it will work.
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Bruce Amacker
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Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 1790
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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And how many ACVWs were built with center carbs from the factory?
I don't remember who it is, but a Samba member posted that he had assembled a 2180 and was running it with a 34PICT quite successfully. He had stated it pulled like a bear to 4000RPM before it ran out of airflow. IIRC, he is a regular engine builder and assembled the engine from slightly used parts leftover from multiple engine builds- jugs and pistons that were used but not trashed, used 82 crank, etc. It was a budget motor just to get him around, which it did quite well. There are a lot of Chicken Littles on this forum who like to run around giving bad news.
Will a large CC engine run on a single carb? Of course it will, and to say it won't is ridiculous. Obviously it won't pull like a dual IDA motor will, but the builder already knows that. As stated before, the center deuce is a common arrangement in the off-road world. Make sure you have good carb heat if you are in a cool climate.
BTW, I'm currently building a 2180 that will have a single two barrel on it when complete.
Good Luck!
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lostinbaja
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Joined: December 19, 2004
Posts: 4036
Location: Frankfort, Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| grimace007 wrote: |
those engines you linked are so horribly under-carbuerated it would be unbearable to drive!
a 2 liter with a pict carb on it? get real!
1600 stock is under carbbed from the get go let alone adding more cc's to the engines displacement. |
FAT Performance has been building BIG single carb engines for a long time and they are very drivable.
How does a single carb 2412cc sound?
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joemama
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Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1664
Location: La Crescenta, California
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I have a 1914 in my fiberglass buggy, and over the last 8 years or so, have run a Holley Bugspray 300 cfm, a Zenith 32, and a 40 idf, all as single center mounted carbs. All had heat to the manifold. All had pluses and minuses. The Holley had great top end power, but a big flat spot off idle (plus it had a worn out throttle shaft), the Zenith was a great all around, trouble free carb, just not great top end, and the weber 40 idf had a little more top end than the Zenith, with pretty good all around driveability, (and more problems with plugged jets). Having said this, I am currently running dual 40 idfs, (because it bugged me that I was not getting the most from my engine), and although not yet fine tuned, I am pretty impressed with the smooth power curve. I really dont think the differnce in top end horsepower is as great as people say, but all around power is way better with the dual carbs. This is on a 1914 with stock dual port heads, 8.5 to 1 compression, Engle 110, .009, and an extractor exhaust. |
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Mint Jams
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Joined: July 01, 2009
Posts: 62
Location: Mother Earth
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| Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the love guys!
Yes now we know that a Big Engine fitted with a single carb can work but how well with a standard exhaust, and will it be comparatively as reliable as a stock 1600? The single carb will surely be great for the city traffic, but can it run as cool as a 1600 stock motor?
Last edited by Mint Jams on Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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krusher
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Posts: 7662
Location: europe
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:31 am Post subject: |
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The stock 1600 exhaust isnt going to be able to flow out the extra charge that the larger capacity is sucking in through the higher flowing carb, so it going to back up a lot of pressure in the exhaust and the extra hot gases arnt going to escape as they would, I would guess at this engine running hot.
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kevin11
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Joined: March 12, 2004
Posts: 828
Location: Arlington,Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Loic wrote: |
i made a try a few weeks ago with a 2017cc engine.
A small video during the 80 to 120kph time test in 3rd gear.
Link
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 looks like your fuel gage moved as fast as your spedometer!! I got a 2017 and love it! |
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Mint Jams
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Joined: July 01, 2009
Posts: 62
Location: Mother Earth
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Loic, what was the mods done to carb and manifold, or was the carb only modified for flow? Would be great to show us some pictures of your stock looking engine.
Has anyone considered a single TB EFI system on a big motor. There is the CBP quick tune EFI unit that offers either 40mm single or dual TB, and quite sure it will give alot more power and mileage, not sure about reliability though.
I have read CBP has a single TB system and the system has an IAC (Idle Air Control) valve to automatically control idle speed. This means no more problem with wondering idle, and perfect for mild performance engines. Not sure how effective the IAC will work with mild performance engines installed with aircond compressors. The common problem is that engine stalls when the a/c compressor cuts in. In theory, the electronics in the system should make the IAC do it's work to achieve desired results.
Anyone already with this set-up or any feedback on the CBP single TB EFI unit?
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Last edited by Mint Jams on Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jeff denham
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Joined: January 14, 2006
Posts: 780
Location: calif
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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btw a 1915 is a toy compard to SOME but a darn good one thouge. i had a slg 34 pict on my 1915 and got darn good milage with a small cheater cam and 1/3/8 header with a sgl magna flow muff. ran as smooth as a stocker. was relible as heck until the ass end of the case opened up like the Exon valdise. need to recaser. so yes a slg carb dose work bitchen of coarse you have to drill that carb to compensate. also dont make the mestake of over caming with a slg then you will have an engine that idels like a fuleler. JD.
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Mint Jams
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Joined: July 01, 2009
Posts: 62
Location: Mother Earth
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Welcome jeff, and thanks for contributing.
I intend to built a 2017 with a single carb that idles and runs smooth like a stocker. Can you tell me exactly what are the mods that go into the 34 pict to work with the big engine? I'd prefer running a carb anytime mainly because of cost.
Cheers!
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sxuxrxf
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Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 1338
Location: Oceanside, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:51 am Post subject: |
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I have a 2007cc with a single Weber 44. Runs great, pulls very strong. Made 115hp and 128lbs torque at about 5k rpm. The carb was tuned and dynoed by DRD. It starts right up with a crack of the throttle and idles smooth.
specs:
90.5 x 78
stock DP heads
110 cam
1.5" exhaust with custom heat risers (see my gallery for pics)
Weber 44 (don't know the final jetting/venturi sizes off-hand)
Gas mileage SUCKS, but who cares - it's a toy!
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Marv [UK]
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Joined: January 07, 2009
Posts: 2225
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| sxuxrxf wrote: |
I have a 2007cc with a single Weber 44. Runs great, pulls very strong. Made 115hp and 128lbs torque at about 5k rpm. The carb was tuned and dynoed by DRD. It starts right up with a crack of the throttle and idles smooth.
specs:
90.5 x 78
stock DP heads
110 cam
1.5" exhaust with custom heat risers (see my gallery for pics)
Weber 44 (don't know the final jetting/venturi sizes off-hand)
Gas mileage SUCKS, but who cares - it's a toy! |
thats not a single carb, its a 2 barrel which is basically 2 carbs in the same casting. |
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